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# Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

#1
05-30-2012, 01:12 AM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SW Montana Posts: 4,057
Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

OK, I thought I had this all straight but then I started reading and figuring and one thing lead to another and now I don't know what I know.

I tested an optic by turning it up 120 clicks which puts me at 30 whole numbers of some value I'm trying to determine, the optic moved 31.5 inches so I took and divided actual movement of 31.5 inches by dialed movement of 30 and it came out at 1.05 which I'm thinking is what my actual turret movement is in since it was done at 300ft and MOA should be 1.047 at that distance. So I'm thinking that's .003 over correcting at 300ft for MOA and so the correction factor would be 1 minus .003 which is .997, but then I read the directions and they seem to have you dividing dialed value by actual value and that is your correction factor which comes out as .952 so I think that's it but it does not look right!

JacknSD put it like this in another thread trying to help but my brain ain't gettn it so I though I best move to another thread!! Maybe I need the why you did it the way you did written out? Thanks for helping!!

"If you meant 30 MOA moved it 31.5 inches at 100 yards then it would be: .997

30*1.0471996=31.415988

31.415988/31.5= .997

So almost no correction seems to be needed. "
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#2
05-30-2012, 02:30 AM
 Gold Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kuna, ID Posts: 594
Re: Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

What is the claimed adjustment value of the scope? The dialed adjustment and actual adjustment numbers in your equation need to be in the same unit of measure, MOA or inches...just both the same. If the scope is labeled in MOA don't worry about it, unless the rifle can shoot and you can accurately measure groups that are in the thousandths.
#3
05-30-2012, 06:30 AM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 2,767
Re: Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

Quote:
 Originally Posted by bigngreen OK, I thought I had this all straight but then I started reading and figuring and one thing lead to another and now I don't know what I know. I tested an optic by turning it up 120 clicks which puts me at 30 whole numbers of some value I'm trying to determine, the optic moved 31.5 inches so I took and divided actual movement of 31.5 inches by dialed movement of 30 and it came out at 1.05 which I'm thinking is what my actual turret movement is in since it was done at 300ft and MOA should be 1.047 at that distance. So I'm thinking that's .003 over correcting at 300ft for MOA and so the correction factor would be 1 minus .003 which is .997, but then I read the directions and they seem to have you dividing dialed value by actual value and that is your correction factor which comes out as .952 so I think that's it but it does not look right! JacknSD put it like this in another thread trying to help but my brain ain't gettn it so I though I best move to another thread!! Maybe I need the why you did it the way you did written out? Thanks for helping!! "If you meant 30 MOA moved it 31.5 inches at 100 yards then it would be: .997 30*1.0471996=31.415988 31.415988/31.5= .997 So almost no correction seems to be needed. "
Friend, you either still know what you know or it makes two of us that don't know
what we know!

Here is part of the instructions: For example, if you've come to realize your .25MOA per-click scope is actually .23MOA per-click then you'd put a correction factor of 1.08695652 (.25/.23) because you actually need to adjust more

Needles to say, (The application will always multiply by the correction factor), so if we fall short the correction factor needs to be higher than 1.0 and if it falls on the high end it needs a number smaller than one. (This is more for me to understand what I'm saying. )

See instructions portion and it makes sense.

In your case, you dialed 30 MOA and obtained 31.5/1.047198) = 30.080MOA

Then our correction factor has to be less than "one" 1.0

30/30.080 = 0.997 Now, we both know what we know!!!
************************************************** ***********
Another way to look at it:

you said:

I tested an optic by turning it up 120 clicks which puts me at 30 whole numbers of some value I'm trying to determine, the optic moved 31.5 inches

31.5"/1.047 = 30.080 MOA

30.080 MOA / 120 CLICKS = 0.2506667 MOA per click... we need a correction factor
smaller than 1.0 ---->(0.25 MOA/ 0.2506667 MOA) = 0.997. And again
we both know what we know.
************************************************** *********

You also said: "So I'm thinking that's .003 over correcting at 300ft for MOA"

That's correct; it's over correcting 0.003" per MOA.

3 Thousands of an inch??????? At 100 yd????? NO CORRECTION NEED.

As a matter of a fact, you're good at doing that, you should come over and check
my scopes.

JacknSD is right, NO CORRECTION NEEDED!

BignGreen, what optics are those? Is it a NightForce?
***********************************************
It could also be that the three of us don't know garbage! Don't know what we
think we know!
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#4
05-30-2012, 08:58 AM
 SPONSOR Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 475
Re: Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

I agree with the answers already given; your turrets are marked in MOA, and you need no correction factor being that close. It would amount to about 1/10th of one click over 30 MOA.

But just for the sake of clarity, you did the math properly, and the correction factor should be slightly less than 1.0.

Maybe I'll take some time and elaborate in the instructions with an example of this calculation.

Take care,
-Bryan
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Bryan Litz
Ballistician

Author of: Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting
Supplier of: Applied Ballistics Munitions

#5
05-30-2012, 09:07 AM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Nevada Posts: 2,767
Re: Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

bsl135,

I'm starting to like you!
__________________
-----------------------------

-----------------------------
HEBREWS 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!!

---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!
#6
05-30-2012, 09:40 AM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,110
Re: Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

Here's what I've done to check how much a scope's click moves point of impact.

Clamp your scope solidly with it at maximum power aimed and focused at a ruler exactly 50 yards away from the front of the scope and at exact right angles to the line of sight. Make sure the ruler's aligned straight with a reticule wire. Align the reticule on an even inch line. Count the clicks as the reticule moves to another inch line 2 inches away.

If it takes 17 clicks to move the reticule exactly 2 inches at 50 yards, each click's worth .2353 MOA. Check both elevation and windage to verify they're both the same. If 17 clicks don't put the reticule exactly on the ruler 2 inches away, keep moving the adjustment in the same direction until it aligns exactly on an inch line; counting clicks all the way. Then divide the inches moved by the clicks to get there. 1 MOA in the shooting sports is exactly 1/2 inch at 50 yards. But some say it's worth .5236 inch. Whatever.

The main thing is to find out how much the scope moves impact for each click. Then you can convert that to whatever angular unit of measurement you want.

Note that all scopes of the same make and model will have a small tolerance in their adjustments. That's 'cause their lens elememt's focal lengths vary a small percentage and that effects the target image size in the reticule plane; longer focal length of the objective lens system makes larger images, shorter ones make smaller images. While the same make and model all move the reticule tube the exact same amount per click, If the target image on the reticule is 5% bigger than spec, your click value will be 5% less than spec. And sometimes, the mechanics of a scope are not exact and that causes more errors.
#7
05-30-2012, 01:17 PM
 Gold Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Patagonia Mountains, Arizona Posts: 742
Re: Applied Ballistics correction value math help!!

To add to the confusion the angular image scale of a riflescope is not constant with the focus adjustment. The optical equation for the focal spacing of a simple lens (like the objective of a telescope) is 1/d1 +1/d2 = 1/f and the image scale is at the target compared to the scale on the reticle is d1/d2. Related to a riflescope f is the focal length of the objective lens, d1 is the effective spacing of the objective lens to the target, and d2 is the effective spacing of the objective lens to the reticle. If d2 was constant, then the image scale would be exactly proportional to d1, But d2 changes as you focus a scope to new parallax settings as the target distance is changed. So the distance you choose to set up your scope will affect the observed image scale, d1/d2. The error is not linear with distance d1 and becomes greater at shorter distances as d2 becomes longer. The difference between d2 and f is too small to notice at reasonable shooting distances. I think that's what causing bigngreen's confusion. Where the riflescope manufacturer decides to make the image scale "correct" is not determined by the rules of optics. That's just the manufacturers choice limited by tolerances of the optics that are used.

There's also a question of where you're measuring the target to scope distance. To the objective lens or to the reticle, or somewhere else. .003 error at 100 yards is equivalent to a 10.6" spacing measurement error. I'm not saying that's the source of the .003 error, only that the calculations aren't quite as simple as are being assumed in this thread.

I personally think it's nit picking. Other sources of error like bullet velocity uncertainty, difference between actual drag curves and the G() functions, and uncorrected wind deflection residuals are generally greater error sources.

Last edited by LouBoyd; 05-30-2012 at 02:15 PM..

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