Originally Posted by Tony 0321
Thanks for the info on these bullets I was not aware of the misprints of the BC's I did a lot of research on these bullets before I decided to buy them and everywhere I looked I could only find good things about how well they shot but I was not able to find anything anywhere about shooting these bullets at extended ranges... On their website I was impresesed by the published BC's as they had the highest of any hunting bullet I could find, with the Swift sciroccos and the berger VLD being second behind the 177hv's the 173hv's are about the same as the burger or swift bullets.. I know how the sciroccos perform and was highly impressed by them but I could not get them to group very well out of my 300RUM they shot great out of my 300 win mag thuogh. and the sciroccos dont perform well at slower speeds. I am hoping that the 177GS work better than the 173's and have better trojectory even if the published BC's are close they should work great...And i am keeping my fingers crossed since I have already bought them so I will atleast give them a try..
I am curious James if when shooting the 173"s if you were able to calculate the true BC of the bullets just to see how far off the published numbers were if you have that info that would be great thanks
This was our process and this is what we discovered.....
We purchased a significant quantity of the GS bullets and develped loading data.
We then adjusted our impact points at 100 based on the BCs from the website in 2004/2005 to achieve a 400 yard zero.
Needless to say we were very suprised when the impacts were not even close to the aiming point..... Specifically, they were flying about a foot low and not hitting the target....
We then adjusted it for the zero at 400 yards and then commenced the accuracy testing at 400.
We shot two shots and packed up the gear and went home.
Next day at exactly the same time we shot another shot into the target using the same aiming point.
We did that the next three days until we had 6 shots on target..... The group measured 3/8" and we were ecstatic about the grouping of the bullets and we immediatley contacted GS and let them use our testimony on their website and they did for about 4 years.
The next step was to develop the drop charts for the bullet and that is where it went sour. Again, the bullets were under-flying the targets when using the BC data from the GS website. Once we got the scope tweaked, the rounds were impacting very close together and we continued this from 500 out to 900 yards.
We noticed that the flight characteristics of the bullets seemed poor and much worse that the Nosler 180 grain Accubonds that we had already tested.
We conducted some BC testing over the chronograph and that data is what uncovered the mystery..... The BCs were in the low .3s and when we reverse calculated the drops we saw, the drops matched the chronograph data. We felt like idiots for spending that kind of money on bullets that were inferior ballistically to the Noslers.... I had to hide the bullets under the desk to keep from getting sick every time I saw them.
We contacted Gerard and did not get any response from him.... I went to the website to show one of my shooting buddies the data and the BCs had been removed from the website without any explanation or correspondence explaining the details of what was happening.
I never heard from Gerard again until this year when I noticed he was on the forums.
Based on the information I got from him about returning products and legalities in the shipping of bullets in Zambia, it seems as though one cannot return them using a shipper that has real time tracking and legitimate delivery confirmation.... With that being the case, it is just too much of a mire for me to even think about trying the new ones and I hope that no one has to go through the wasted expense that I have with this company.
Not much customer service and they were not even considering refunding or making the order good.... Their action was to ignore correspondence. I did get several notices from the office personnel that the additional order that I had made was ready, but nothing about standing behind the products that did not even come close to the claimed performance that was printed on the website. Nothing from Gerard at all. The silence was deafening.
We also tested the Lost River bullets and they were accurate as the GS customs and they had great flight characteristics.... Unfortunately they did not expand properly. Lost River refunded my money for the entire order and I shipped the products back to them..... They called me a short time later and they sent me another order and I tested them as well and they still did not expand properly... Lastly, they sent me some experimental poly-tipped ones to try and I must say that I did not want to shoot another animal suspecting improper expansion so I did not test those. Now since they are not in business, I guess it is good that we stuck with the Noslers until the HATS came along.....
Some folks think that I am on this because of the HATS and that is not the case..... I just don't want anyone to get fooled and waste a lot of resources looking for the holy grail and wind up in the same boat as I. They (GS customs) have had ample time to take the high road and they chose not to do it.
Anyway, I was doing some spring cleaning today and found some bullets that I did not realize that I had on hand so I did an inventory of all the bullets that I have that were still sealed in their original containers. In the interest of full disclosure here are the results.
(5000) Berger 6mm 105s
(3000) Sierra 107s
(1000) JLK 70s
(2000) Brawand 63s
(1400) Messer 52s
(500) Berger 65s
(1500) Noslers in various calibers and weights
(300) HATS in various calibers and weights
(300+) GS custom bullets
(1500) Sierras (non 6mm)
(475 +or-) Lost River bullets
(1000) Lapua 6mms
(600) Swift Sciroccos
Again, the above are the bullets that are sealed. The bullets that are not sealed are listed below and are from the below companies:
I supect that I have over 20,000 projectiles ready for field use. As you can see, I am not single-minded when it comes to bullet selection and use. Each and every one that I have has its place. I have spent a lot of time and money looking for the holy grail of bullets for different applications and some of the above fit that bill and some don't. However, every application that I have is covered by one of the above entries (except for Lost River and GS customs).
Finally, when pushing the envelope in search of the leading edge or an advantage it gets expensive and time consuming.
Good luck, good shooting and have a nice day.