Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics

Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics


Reply

Annealing cases??

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Old 02-12-2003, 09:10 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: McNeal, AZ
Posts: 368
Re: Annealing cases??

The first two things I learned this morning:

Not all propane torches are created equal.

I can turn the brass orange in only eight seconds.

What can be done with this over heated brass? Will it never be useable? What can I do to get it back to where it should be?
__________________
If I can kill that coyote from here, Will you walk out to get him?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-12-2003, 11:00 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 374
Re: Annealing cases??

Tim,

Go down to 4 seconds in front of the torch and don't dunk it. Let it cool slowly. If you see it changing color, you went too far. ps, I do my brand new cases because the first inch of case is cut off and reformed.
__________________
If you have something that you disassemble and reassemble enough times, sooner or later, you'll have two!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-14-2003, 01:47 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: Annealing cases??

Tim.

I've got them "just" red before and fired them without a problem. It just leaves them increadibly soft, even with quenching them. It is fairly hard after the first firing again. You'll be less consistant from load to load if you over do it and neck tension will not be what it should.

I wouldn't get them hot without quenching in water, lest you get soft head bases. I'm not sure what temp the bases are getting on 4mesh's, but if you get the neck warm enough to actually anneal, the case will get VERY hot if not dunked and just let set there. Be carefull.

I don't count so much as I try to get the color change the same then the remove and dunk part consistantly timed. I dunk from the base to force the heat away from the head and cool them in a cosistant way from case to case. You can't do this in but very dim light or you'll see the subtle color change way too late.
__________________
Brent Moffitt
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-15-2003, 09:42 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 374
Re: Annealing cases??

Hey Brent,

I don't like quenching them for a few reasons.

First, the amount of heat needed to anneal the case is a ton less than red hot. Think about it like this. If you are grinding a piece of A2, lets say. On the grinder, it turns gray. That's about 400degrees. Blue is about 600 degrees. Now it gets brown, thats about 800. You now have a work-hardened piece of tool steel.

If you through harden the same piece of A2 at about 1725Degrees, it'll reach about 60rc. To draw it back, you place it in an oven at 400 and it'll "draw/anneal" the steel. Now, that amount of time is a lot longer than we do our cases (1 hr), but it does not need to be as long if we get the item hotter. (we just loose control of the end result). On brass, you don't need to get the brass anywhere near red to do the job. Even if you see it discolor from the surrounding air, I'd call that too hot.

Dunking, even mouth down, gets water in the case. That water may still be in there days later. (I've done it). I usually would put my cases in the oven to dry them out. I do not advocate that for anyone. I've pulled bullets to find wet primers and powder. No thanks.

Next, when you dunk the case, you "chase" the heat away from the water. The odds are, you have now warmed the base enough to anneal it also, even though you were thinking you stopped the process short. Another example of that. Take a piece of a coathanger about 4 inches long. Hole the wire between your fingers. Now heat the end of it red hot, while holding it. Heat it until you feel the wire in your fingers becoming uncomfortably warm. Stop. Now, dunk the red hot end in a glass of water. Instantly, your fingers are burnt fast to the wire. You have now chased the heat energy away from the water and up the wire.

For me.... Less heat, more time. Let them cool slowly with NO water near em.

BTW, red hot also means you have burned the carbon deposits into the neck and now it is near impossible to remove. That lends itself to uneven bullet release I think. If nothing else, the burnt crap on the outside makes cases stick in the chamber and I don't care for that.

Take one of your over annealed cases and fire it. Keep it as an example for size. When your other brass comes out of the gun smaller than that, they are begining to rebound and need annealed to acheive a better seal at the neck.
__________________
If you have something that you disassemble and reassemble enough times, sooner or later, you'll have two!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:08 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 221
Re: Annealing cases??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Behle View Post
The first two things I learned this morning:

Not all propane torches are created equal.

I can turn the brass orange in only eight seconds.

What can be done with this over heated brass? Will it never be useable? What can I do to get it back to where it should be?
If it goes beyond "dull red," throw away the brass! You've heated it too much! You want only a dull red color. Anneal where there is low light so you can see the color change.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:34 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NW OHIO
Posts: 297
Re: Annealing cases??

[QUOTE=Tim Behle;22055]
What can be done with this over heated brass? QUOTE]


Put it in the recycle bin
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-16-2012, 10:55 AM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 221
Re: Annealing cases??

...or give it to your kiddies or grandkiddies as whistles. Overheated (over-annealed) brass is dangerous to shoot. Do NOT use it. if you want to get into annealing, practice it first with some old brass so you can make the mistakes before you screw up the stuff you want to reload. Anneal in a low-light room; if you don't, you will tend to over-anneal. You should use a 1/2" tip on your propane torch, although a 5/8" tip will work. All you need is a rotary drill and a socket that allows you to fit the case loosely enough so that you can easily dump it into water afterwards. You can also use butane instead of propane. Butane is far cooler than propane, so it will take more time if you use butane (see 4Mesh's post above).

Do you need to quench in water? No, but it acts as a cushion for the cases when you want to eject them from your socket without damaging the cases after you anneal them. You could just as easily dump them into a bucket of rags, but you might cause dents in the necks of the annealed cases as you dump more and more of them into the bucket.

Annealing does not improve accuracy, and in some cases may decrease accuracy....depending on the rifle, the shooter and reloading technique. The purpose is to allow you to "refresh" the brass after it has been work-hardened from having been shot a few times and to prevent the brass from splitting at the neck due to work-hardening. You don't need to anneal new brass UNLESS you are necking down to produce wildcat cases. Necking down immediately work-hardens these cases.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads for: Annealing cases??
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Annealing Cases Buffalobob Videos Of Tech Stuff And Reviews 55 03-24-2012 11:08 PM
How to anneal cases using the Ballistic Edge annealing machine. Len Backus Reloading 2 05-14-2010 12:48 AM
Proper temp for annealing cases? 243yote Reloading 1 02-22-2010 02:29 AM
New cases verses Fire formed cases Topshot Reloading 4 11-02-2009 08:46 AM
Questions about annealing cases Marine sniper Reloading 5 07-14-2008 11:52 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC