Annealing cases??

[Tim Behle]

The first two things I learned this morning:

Not all propane torches are created equal.

I can turn the brass orange in only eight seconds.

What can be done with this over heated brass? Will it never be useable? What can I do to get it back to where it should be?

[4mesh063]

Tim,

Go down to 4 seconds in front of the torch and don't dunk it. Let it cool slowly. If you see it changing color, you went too far. ps, I do my brand new cases because the first inch of case is cut off and reformed.

[Brent]

Tim.

I've got them "just" red before and fired them without a problem. It just leaves them increadibly soft, even with quenching them. It is fairly hard after the first firing again. You'll be less consistant from load to load if you over do it and neck tension will not be what it should.

I wouldn't get them hot without quenching in water, lest you get soft head bases. I'm not sure what temp the bases are getting on 4mesh's, but if you get the neck warm enough to actually anneal, the case will get VERY hot if not dunked and just let set there. Be carefull.

I don't count so much as I try to get the color change the same then the remove and dunk part consistantly timed. I dunk from the base to force the heat away from the head and cool them in a cosistant way from case to case. You can't do this in but very dim light or you'll see the subtle color change way too late.

[4mesh063]

Hey Brent,

I don't like quenching them for a few reasons.

First, the amount of heat needed to anneal the case is a ton less than red hot. Think about it like this. If you are grinding a piece of A2, lets say. On the grinder, it turns gray. That's about 400degrees. Blue is about 600 degrees. Now it gets brown, thats about 800. You now have a work-hardened piece of tool steel.

If you through harden the same piece of A2 at about 1725Degrees, it'll reach about 60rc. To draw it back, you place it in an oven at 400 and it'll "draw/anneal" the steel. Now, that amount of time is a lot longer than we do our cases (1 hr), but it does not need to be as long if we get the item hotter. (we just loose control of the end result). On brass, you don't need to get the brass anywhere near red to do the job. Even if you see it discolor from the surrounding air, I'd call that too hot.

Dunking, even mouth down, gets water in the case. That water may still be in there days later. (I've done it). I usually would put my cases in the oven to dry them out. I do not advocate that for anyone. I've pulled bullets to find wet primers and powder. No thanks.

Next, when you dunk the case, you "chase" the heat away from the water. The odds are, you have now warmed the base enough to anneal it also, even though you were thinking you stopped the process short. Another example of that. Take a piece of a coathanger about 4 inches long. Hole the wire between your fingers. Now heat the end of it red hot, while holding it. Heat it until you feel the wire in your fingers becoming uncomfortably warm. Stop. Now, dunk the red hot end in a glass of water. Instantly, your fingers are burnt fast to the wire. You have now chased the heat energy away from the water and up the wire.

For me.... Less heat, more time. Let them cool slowly with NO water near em.

BTW, red hot also means you have burned the carbon deposits into the neck and now it is near impossible to remove. That lends itself to uneven bullet release I think. If nothing else, the burnt crap on the outside makes cases stick in the chamber and I don't care for that.

Take one of your over annealed cases and fire it. Keep it as an example for size. When your other brass comes out of the gun smaller than that, they are begining to rebound and need annealed to acheive a better seal at the neck.