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Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

 
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2011, 06:16 AM
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Re: Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

Broz,
What's the story with these Bergers. How much better are they than the SMK in all truth?

I have just done some testing on some Rocky Mountain, 300 grain bullets with advertised B.C.'s through the roof but found the true B.C. to be very disapointing. I hope these Bergers are not the same.

You are shooting these Bergers. Whats the advantage if any over the SMK's.
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  #16  
Old 08-24-2011, 07:09 AM
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Re: Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

There was an article not too long ago where Bryan Litz and another shooter did extensive LR testing with the new 300 gr hybrids. The G7 BC was confirmed to be .419

As for worrying about them fitting the magazine.....I have a 300 RUM with a wyatt's mag box for a model 70 hunting rifle. I took a 338 RUM case and seated the bullet to fit mag box. While the bullet is deep into the case the bullet's bearing surface made total contact with the case neck. You can bet when my 300 RUM finally dies I'll rebore the existing barrel to 338 RUM and use this wonderful new Berger bullet.

As a sidenote I am shooting this new bullet in a most unlikely chambering, a long throated 338 RCM. Recoil and velocity are very modest BUT the bullet shoots well and down range performance is amazing. Velocity with 57 gr of RL-17 is 2579 fps. Wind drift is amazing. This barrel should last a long long time. 308 win eat your heart out.

older pic shows 300 gr sierra


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  #17  
Old 08-24-2011, 08:44 AM
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Re: Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300WSMMAD View Post
+1 Jeff, I cant figure out why Long range hunting rifles need mags myself, in a military application heeeell yes, but hunting no IMHO.
All my longrangers are bulit on Barnard P's.

But if it smokes yeh tyres, get magazines.

Back on topic, got too many 300 SMKs to buy more, but I spose I could get a box and try em, then maybe sell the SMK's if theyre real good.

I can see how a fella would feel that way, different strokes for different folks I'll be sending hundreds more rounds down range @ steel than I ever will at game (I have other toys for that). I'm going to start playing with my ballistics software with the Berger & the SMK at the average velocity of my RUM (2780) , just to get a relative idea of the difference possible.... Maybe I oughta post it? What do you guys think?
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2011, 09:19 AM
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Re: Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topshot View Post
Broz,
What's the story with these Bergers. How much better are they than the SMK in all truth?

I have just done some testing on some Rocky Mountain, 300 grain bullets with advertised B.C.'s through the roof but found the true B.C. to be very disapointing. I hope these Bergers are not the same.

You are shooting these Bergers. Whats the advantage if any over the SMK's.
Here is what I can tell you for sure. I used the 300 SMK's for years. I have nothing bad to say about them. I took game past 1100 yards and they were one shot kills. Probably shot about 7 to 800 of them in this same rifle. When the 300 bergers came out, I bought some of the Gen 1's up. They were easy to work a load for and seating depth did not seem to cahange a thing in my rifle from touching the lands to .080" off. I settled on .015" off the lands because I got some steller ES there. I shot about 250 of the Gen 1's and only found one bullet go a little goofy. It tore an oblong hole and was about 1 moa out of group at 1500 yards. Was it bullet failure?? Who knows? But it left a small amount of doubt so I sent them in for replacement for Gen 2's. But I had shot the tightest groups at 1000 and beyond that I ever had with the gen 1's. A couple that come to mind are a 2 3/4" 3 shot at 1000 and a 5" five shot at 1180 yds. All this was done in field conditions off a harris bipod and a rear bag.
So when my order of Gen 2's came in I went to testing. I found I could run a grain more of a powder charge than with the gen 1's which pretty much duplicated my SMK load excepy I ran the smk's .050" farther off the lands.
I now have over 250 of the gen 2's down range. I kid you not, in good conditions I will shoot a 3 shot group way out there and it will be 1/2 moa or just under. I am not talking shooting rocks where a 1/2 moa can go undetected. I have been testing to 1500 plus in the last couple weeks putting them on paper. Like said before this testing includes a 2" group at 738 yds and a 7" group at 1536. All groups have been 1/2 moa or less except one that went 3/4 moa and I had a bad trigger break on that one. I am awaiting some more time and perfect conditions to shoot groups at 1650, 1800 and 2000 yards. his will complete my actual field testing and allow me to finalize my drops. Then I will have my drops "spot on" to 2000. Not spot on a rock, spot to a 1/2 moa group on paper. I feel this is important when working your program to match your actual tradjectory.

BC's, ... As you guys know I have been working on stepped BC's. The reason is, it looks like my rifle will require it at my velocity which is either side of 2800 fps MV. I can tell you that the G7 BC of .419 or the G1 0f .818 in my rifle will get me past 1000 and be spot on. But farther down range I start running low. More on that when I get done.

So start with the factory BC and go see what ya get. Some of my friends ave modeled this bullet and found advertised BC's to be good. Now, there is always exceptions. I believe different rifles and velcities may need an adjusted BC. But in some cases it is due to a fibbing chronograph or maybe altitude or what ever. I feel that if I test the drops every couple hundred yards and get them to line up I am good to go and I could care less what the vel and BC numbers are. They are just numbers to me. All I want are cold bore hits.

Guys I love shooting rocks in the 1 moa size. But I have come to realize that it is better left for field practice than for adjusting programs and drops. Like I said earlier, too easy to mis read 1/2 moa. Get her dialed in on paper and then go practice on rocks. Rocks are evil and need killed.

One last thing, with the limited testing I have done at 1900 plus yds, it appears that I will still hold 1 moa or better even sub-sonic with the Gen 2's. If you have ever done this with the SMK's you know that is not the case. This kind of testing past 1900 yards is not an easy thing to document and requires perfect conditions. But, I am documenting my work and will at some point have what I feel is solid data. I do not have plans to take game with a subsonic shot. But I enjoy shooting at these distances for fun.

Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with or compensated from Berger Bullets. I have received Tech help from Byran and Eric when I needed it. I shoot Bergers because they work. If they didn't I would be shooting something else.

Sorry for the long post. As you can see I have devoted some time to this testing and I hope this answers some questions on this bullet. Like I said, if you shoot a .338 I would give them a test drive.

Jeff ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2011, 09:25 AM
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Re: Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

AZShooter, Thanks for the info andthe great pics. Could I talk you into downsizing the pics a bit so we don't have to page side to sideto read the other posts?

Please - Thank you!

Jeff
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2011, 11:33 AM
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Re: Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

Sure Jeff I'd love to downsize the pics....if I knew how. I copy them from photobucket and don't see any options to make them smaller. I just tested the below pics and there is no moving the page left and right to read the text.

All this talk this morning about these bullets finally got me out to the 3 pts range west of Tucson. I use the 500 M silhouette range to test my comeups. Shot the 300 M javelinas and 500 M rams. Comeups were just what JBM predicted using .419 G7 BC. It had winds around 6 mph but was gusty with wind generally quartering downrange from to left to right



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  #21  
Old 08-24-2011, 11:51 AM
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Re: Amazed with the Gen 2 Bergers

I use potobucket too. It's in the blue line that pops up when you hold your curser over the pic. " edit" 640 x 480 works well. Or I have learned that simply resizing to "small" on windown before I load them to PhotoBucket and I don't have to do any other sizing to forums. No problem, maybe it is my laptop as I have to scroll side to side to read each line.

No biggy man, Thanks

Jeff
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