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Advice wanted on rifle calibers

 
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2013, 04:40 PM
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Re: Advice wanted on rifle calibers

Hi Gary, why do few people ever get anywhere with the 223 WSSM? Thanks for your suggestions of the .224 Vias and Jaybird I will have a look at them. I was originally looking at a 6mm but if I was to run 70grs in a 22 caliber at the same velocity as a 6mm then surely the 22 will have a better bc and be less affected by the wind or am I wrong?
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  #30  
Old 10-25-2013, 07:42 PM
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Re: Advice wanted on rifle calibers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tris View Post
Hi Gary, why do few people ever get anywhere with the 223 WSSM? Thanks for your suggestions of the .224 Vias and Jaybird I will have a look at them. I was originally looking at a 6mm but if I was to run 70grs in a 22 caliber at the same velocity as a 6mm then surely the 22 will have a better bc and be less affected by the wind or am I wrong?
yes the heavier 22's will have a better ballistic coefficient. Everybody I knew that tried the .223 WSM was unhappy with accuracy and throat life. Plus cases are often hard to come by. Add to this the fact that it's really no faster than a .224 Jaybird, but uses more powder.

The Jaybird is a round I really want to do. Has the desired .30" long neck with a 35 degree shoulder. But I think this round would be even better in 6mm. The advantage of the 6mm is that you can shoot bullets from 55 or 58 grains to 115 grains. Plus bullets like the 105 grain Amax have a B/C of .50, and the 115 grain from Berger is about .54.
gary
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  #31  
Old 10-26-2013, 12:57 AM
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Re: Advice wanted on rifle calibers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tris View Post
Hi Gary, why do few people ever get anywhere with the 223 WSSM? Thanks for your suggestions of the .224 Vias and Jaybird I will have a look at them. I was originally looking at a 6mm but if I was to run 70grs in a 22 caliber at the same velocity as a 6mm then surely the 22 will have a better bc and be less affected by the wind or am I wrong?
Tris, your questions are a little confusing, at least to me they are. What is your priority? Shooting a 70 bullet? Flattest cartridge? Flatest to what range? A 22-250 will be very slightly flatter than 6-284 to 300 yds. A 6-284 will be slightly flatter than a 22-250 at 400 yds and it will buck wing a lot better than the 22-250 at any range.

On the lighter end of my rifles, I have a 223, 22-250 and 6-284. All of them are basically for "fun". The 223 and 22-250 are mainly for gophers, prairie dogs and rocks and they can definitely hammer yotes if the opportunity arises.

The 6-284 is also for all the above and it it is heads above the others for being a dog regulator. For a flat shooting, wind bucking, 500 yd yote buster, the 6-284 is way above the 22-250. That is, using the appropriate bullet like a 105 hybrid or a 107 smk.

If your desire is to shoot 70 gr bullet, then by all means shoot a potent 22 cal. As for barrel life, the 6-284 and 22-250 are probably going to be close. the main factors are volume to bore ratio, load pressure and velocity (higher velocity causes great heat friction in the barrel), powder heat index, and rate of fire. There are some other factors, but those are the main ones. No free lunch... you want performance, you will pay.

You can easily figure all this out by doing some searching and using a ballistic calc.
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  #32  
Old 10-26-2013, 07:16 AM
Edd Edd is offline
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Re: Advice wanted on rifle calibers

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Originally Posted by Tris View Post
Hi everyone,

I am looking at buying another rifle and I am not sure what to get. I currently have a 6.5x284 and a 7mm rem mag and am looking for something slightly smaller. I really want to be shooting around a 70 gr bullet and would like it to be as flat as possible. I want to shoot coyotes and small deer with it. I have currently been looking at 243 ackley, 6-284, 6x47 and 257 weatherby and would like peoples opinions on which one is better as well as any other suggestions.

Many thanks

Tris
When you say "buying", are you wanting to walk into a store and buy it? If so, the simplest thing to do is buy a 243.

If that sounds boring to you and if you want to build something different, look at a 6mm Creedmoor.

If the 6x47 you are considering is a 6-6.5x47 Lapua, that would be a good choice too.

If a 70 gr bullet is the lightest you are wanting to use, I think it's a poor choice to consider a 22 cal.
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  #33  
Old 10-26-2013, 10:48 AM
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Re: Advice wanted on rifle calibers

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Originally Posted by Edd View Post
If a 70 gr bullet is the lightest you are wanting to use, I think it's a poor choice to consider a 22 cal.
I agree. I know there's a lot of guys who like shooting the lighter bullets and the high velocities and that's fine. With a factory twist of 12-14 you have to shoot the lighter ones and probably won't be able to shoo the 70 gr bullets. I am getting mine re-barreled to an 8" twist to shoot the high BC 80's. But, if your set on shooting the 70's go with the 22-250.
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  #34  
Old 10-26-2013, 11:16 AM
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Re: Advice wanted on rifle calibers

Hi Mark, I'm sorry if my questions seem confusing I am looking to shoot as flat a round as possible out to 500 yards. The reason I was originally thinking of shooting a 70gr bullet is that I was thinking of shooting a 6mm of some description and was of the belief that a 70gr would give me a flat trajectory with enough power to still be able to knock down small deer.

Edd thanks for your advice, I am looking to have a rifle made, I am just not sure of what would be the best caliber so hence asking for advice on here.
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  #35  
Old 10-26-2013, 12:09 PM
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Re: Advice wanted on rifle calibers

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Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
I agree. I know there's a lot of guys who like shooting the lighter bullets and the high velocities and that's fine. With a factory twist of 12-14 you have to shoot the lighter ones and probably won't be able to shoo the 70 gr bullets. I am getting mine re-barreled to an 8" twist to shoot the high BC 80's. But, if your set on shooting the 70's go with the 22-250.
Fast twist barrels also have their own issues, as I've came to learn. The big over bore cases can also have their own issues as well. Plus they're a little harder to develop loads. Plus, don't believe the specs that some bullet manufacturers will tell you for the needed barrel twist. Then you decide to shoot a bullet with a B/C in the low to mid point fives. You select a barrel with the needed rate of twist. But later decide to shoot bullets of a dog town in the point three B/C area. Bullets don't group as well because your over stabilizing them. But slowing them down helps, but you want to shoot them fast and flat. And we already know what happens when you try to shoot a high B/C bullet in a barrel with too slow of a twist. Every barrel has a window of bullets it will shoot well.

In this case the O.P. should set down and think first about what he's going to do with the rifle. Is he going to hunt deer or maybe even antelope? Elk or moose? Or is just for varmint shooting. Then you have to consider the ranges your planning to shoot at. 95% of the guys hunting will not be shoot deer at 500+ yards, but an antelope hunter might be.

A basic 22-250 with a nine twist barrel is still done at 500 yards, while the same round in a twelve twist is pretty much done at 400 yards. A 6mm whatever is not going anywhere past 400 yards with a 75 grain bullet, but change over to an 85 grain and we're looking at 500 yards. The 105 Amax will
will do 650 yards, and maybe a little more. The 6mm bullets (heavier versions) compared with the bigger bullets in a .224 have over 20% greater sectional density. The 25 calibers are similar to the 6mm's, but these two diameters usually have heavier jackets. This is better for hunting deer sized game and up. On the otherhand a ground hog won't ever know the difference.

There really is no do it all caliber. The .223 bore is better for dog towns, as it won't beat you up. But when the ranges stretch out the 6mm moves up front. But after a hundred rounds they do get a little old. For coyotes you'll never notice this. If you choice of targets runs from ground hogs out to deer, the 25 is always going to be better even though the 6mm does very well. But of course you could move up to the 6.5's, and seriously gain range and power. A .250AI with a ten twist barrel and a 117 grain bullet will be right at 3000fps, but will still shoot the 75 grain bullets well. That's a little more power than most 6mm's shooting the 105 grain bullet, but will also have a heavier bullet construction.
gary
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