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Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

 
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2009, 07:36 PM
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Re: Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

Boy, some bubbles are a degree or two off here and extreme accuracy reloading inexperience is really showing. Maybe the Berger people can take lessons too! Must be a full moon or something.

If all you want is MOA then, hell throw any load together with any bullet, any powder in custom barrel and you have it, at least 99.9% of the time. Most here, particuliarly anyone shooting at LR, better be working for a load well under MOA or stick to 300 yds and less.

For the uninformed, the ONLY way a bullet .020 into the lands comes out of the case is if you are running neck tension of .0015 or less and you deserve the dumb butt award for doing that in a hunting gun.

For hunting rounds, particularily in a mag gun, you want at least .003-.004 neck tension, otherwise the bullet will often "move" out while in the mag due to recoil.

FYI also, "jamming or soft seating" a bullet will normally result in .040-.060 into the lands not .020. That is a technique often used in single shot comp guns to define a starting point, and we have found that as deep as .030-.040 is the most accurate spot many times.

As for never putting into the lands, depends on your throat and what your gun likes. If it is a standard way too long factory, you will never reach the throat in a mag gun anyway.

Now if you have a custom barrel and chamber that used a reamer properly setup, you can routinely get close to the lands if not touching, just depends on how the reamer was set and for what bullet. Experienced LR guys routinely use reamers made to do that both for comp and hunting guns. Just have to have the reamer make set it up that way.

Every gun is different, and really naive IMO to think that because one gun likes .020 or .125 off, all others will too and that is where to start. Just where do you go if it does not like it?

IMO also really stupid to start in the middle and then come off and then then go back and go towards the lands. Hey, but nothing more than time, bullets, powder and barrel life so go for it.

As I said, you would be smart to start at your max mag OAL or no more than .020 into the lands IF you can reach the lands with max mag OAL.

Have a system instead of hop scotching around!

BH

Last edited by BountyHunter; 11-21-2009 at 07:48 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2009, 10:50 AM
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Re: Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

BH,

I have seen bullets pull out with .003 neck tension seated only .010 into the lands, not many but a few. I agree with start long and work down by .020 and then fine tune. But, to tell somebody, that you don't know how much experience they have to start by seating .020 into the lands is not a good idea IMHO. You're right, it must be the moon or something, because I don't own a rifle that won't shoot 1/4 moa or better at a 1000.
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2009, 11:20 AM
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Re: Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
Every gun is different, and really naive IMO to think that because one gun likes .020 or .125 off, all others will too and that is where to start. Just where do you go if it does not like it?
BH
I suggested starting at magazine length for a hunting rifle not because it worked in my .308 but because, ideally, a hunting rifle should be capable of using the magazine. Knowing that the optimal length of a loaded round could be found anywhere, and can often be found at more than one OAL, It is still my opinion that load development (for a hunting rifle) should start at a length that allows ammo to fit in the magazine. Who knows, you may get lucky and find acceptable accuracy right there. And then again, maybe not.

Asking what is the best OAL for accuracy is like asking what is your favorite accuracy load. It may be interesting but it provides very limited benefit for the load development for any other firearm.
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:14 PM
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Re: Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

I like BountyHunter's approach.

I'm someone using .0015 tension, partially sized one cal of the necks.
But I shoot everything as single shot.

Wouldn't it be a huge advancement to understand optimum seating to the point of prediction?
Don't know if we'll ever be there..
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:31 PM
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Re: Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

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Originally Posted by 300saum View Post
BH,

You're right, it must be the moon or something, because I don't own a rifle that won't shoot 1/4 moa or better at a 1000.
Well I will raise the BS flag on that one for sure.

For what one shot groups one time or are these the typical internet groups? I find that incredulous to say the least since all the records for 1k unrefutabley dispute that statement as being anywhere close to a reality and I find it hard to believe that you would even think anyone would even believe that statement.

The guns thats that actually have shoot 1/4 MOA at 1k are damn few and far between much less anything routinely. There are less than ten 1/4 MOA groups shot every year in comp by the best shooters and comp rifles, so say all your guns do it is quite "laughable" to say the least!

Bring those incredulous guns to the 1k Nationals or the PA World Open and take home all the kupie prizes. However, will bet it does not happen. How much money we got to lose on all those rifles shooting 1/4 MOA in a 1k match? Me and a bunch of guys are needing to up our retirement accounts and will always take sucker bets on statements like that.

FYI I did not say anyone had limited experience soley due to not starting .020 in, but other myriad of uninformed statements.

BH

Last edited by BountyHunter; 11-22-2009 at 12:37 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2009, 02:04 PM
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Re: Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

I never said they would do it everyday and every group. Under good conditions such as little wind and no mirage I can get numerous groups in the 1/4moa range. Sometimes 1/2 or 3/4, but I consider that super out of a long range hunting gun. The last group I shot before my hunt opened was 1.5" at 720yds. You seem to be way smarter than me though and obviously in your eyes, I'm full of it, so I'll be done now.
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2009, 07:12 PM
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Re: Accubonds distance to lands, Rule of thumb

I ended up at about 0.010" off the lands. Shoots excellent groups. Thanks for all the discussion.
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