close
Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics

Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics

Reply

8x57mm cartridge

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Unread 04-27-2010, 04:29 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: western Oregon
Posts: 120
Re: 8x57mm cartridge

Wow, that's cool Kevin. Thanks for your service too!
I know my brother's M1A was sure a shooter. He had the M1a and I had an IH NM Garand. We used to compete against each other for fun, and whoever called the first flyer was usually the one to lose.

Good times and great rifles for sure.
Keep up the good work!
Reply With Quote
  •   #9  
    Unread 04-28-2010, 12:52 PM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Jan 2010
    Location: Central Maine
    Posts: 117
    Re: 8x57mm cartridge

    Not to poach the thread but can anyone shed some light on what the JR & JS designation is with this caliber and when & if it comes into play when using ammo?
    My father has a German made breakopen over/under in (8X57 & 16ga.) and the ammo identifies the caliber as 8x57JR which I think is "rimmed" but it's not clear if you can shoot any of the other 8x57 designations without a problem.
    Thanks in advance for any help.
    __________________
    ~ If the All-Mighty had intended not to hunt down & shoot wild animals, he wouldn't have made them quite so tasty ~
    Reply With Quote

      #10  
    Unread 04-28-2010, 01:58 PM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: Sedalia, MO
    Posts: 1,256
    Re: 8x57mm cartridge

    There are two bore sizes found in the 8x57; the older .318" diameter and the newer JS designated .323" diameter they swithched to in 1905. It's common european practice to designate a cartridge with an R to denote "rimmed" but I'd like to check a bit more on this one just to be sure. Is the face of the barrel cut for a rim?

    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA

    Last edited by Kevin Thomas; 04-28-2010 at 02:02 PM.
    Reply With Quote
      #11  
    Unread 04-29-2010, 12:15 PM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: Wyoming
    Posts: 2,612
    Re: 8x57mm cartridge

    jamie6.5, I am very aware of the 6.5x57 imp or as you call it 6.5x257 roberts imp. It also gained some popularity about 40-50 years ago at the same time as the 7x57 imp did. The 7x57 imp is the better cartridge of the two for several reasons. The guy is asking if the 8x57 is a good long range cartridge. As I said it is not. No good long range bullets available and not enough case capacity for long heavy 8mm bullets that would approach any kind of BC and still have enough velocity for reasonable long range work. As far as picking off people at 500 yards I could easily do that with a 30-30 winchester but it is not considered a long range round either.
    __________________
    Predictions are difficult, especially when they involve the future
    Reply With Quote
      #12  
    Unread 04-29-2010, 12:31 PM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: Sedalia, MO
    Posts: 1,256
    Re: 8x57mm cartridge

    264Junkie,

    Found some references to the 8x57 JRS, or IRS. The "S" denotes "spitzer" the then new, lighter weight (154 grain) .323" bullets, and the "I" or "J" stands for "Infantrie" or "Jaeger", the German word for Hunter, which is how they frequently refer to their infantry. The "R" does indeed appear to indicate a rimmed cartridge, especially in light of the fact that you're dealing with an over/under. I have data for both, and it's listed in the Lapua/Vihtavuori manuals. There is a dsitinctly different pressure level between the two, and the data is not interchangeable. Drop me a private message if you need anything more here so we won't clutter up Jamie's original thread.

    Hope that helps.

    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
    Reply With Quote
      #13  
    Unread 05-01-2010, 02:53 AM
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: May 2010
    Posts: 2
    Re: 8x57mm cartridge

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Long Time Long Ranger View Post
    jamie6.5, I am very aware of the 6.5x57 imp or as you call it 6.5x257 roberts imp. It also gained some popularity about 40-50 years ago at the same time as the 7x57 imp did. The 7x57 imp is the better cartridge of the two for several reasons. The guy is asking if the 8x57 is a good long range cartridge. As I said it is not. No good long range bullets available and not enough case capacity for long heavy 8mm bullets that would approach any kind of BC and still have enough velocity for reasonable long range work. As far as picking off people at 500 yards I could easily do that with a 30-30 winchester but it is not considered a long range round either.
    Hi LTLR,

    I'm afraid that saying that the 8x57mm JS isn't good for long range shooting is to seriously misguide people, I don't blame you however as most Americans know little about this round. Part of the problem lies in the fact that US manfactured ammunition of this type (8x57) in general is way underpowered, not even approaching exploring the true capabilities of this excellent round. The way to go is full power European ammunition, where you can easily get 200 gr bullets doing 2,700+ ft/s through a 23.5 inch barrel no problem.

    Fact of the matter is that the 8x57mm JS round is infact quite a good long range round, as long as you use the right type of bullet. It was infact long range lethality that the 8x57mm JS became famous for. During WW2 the 8x57mm JS seated the 198 gr sS FMJBT projectile, the most aerodynamically efficient rifle bullet of the entire war with a G1 BC of .593 at supersonic speeds and .557 at subsonic speeds (That's considerably higher than a modern .308 M118 sniper bullet). With a typical muzzle velocity of 760 m/s through a 600mm barrel this tranlates into a 1,000+ meter effective range, the bullet still traveling at Mach 1.07 at 1,000 meters under International Standard Atmospheric conditions. This bullet enabled German machine gunners to engage Allied troops out to 3,500 meters in the North African desert during WW2, leading the British to sometimes believing they were under automatic cannon fire. Furthermore German snipers recorded confirmed kills out past 1,100 meters with this round (ex. Matthäus Hetzenauer).

    Today you can still easily duplicate this performance by either handloading, purchasing select european ammunition or WW2 German surplus.

    European munitions manufacturer Sellier & Bellot are currently offering a 196 gr FMJBT in the 8x57mm JS caliber with an average G1 BC of .557 and a muzzle velocity of 790 m/s through a 600mm barrel: Sellier & Bellot - Your ammunition company

    Sierra are currently offering their 200 gr HPBT Match King projectile with a G1 BC of .520 for handloaders: Sierra Bullets - The Bulletsmiths

    WW2 era Karabiner 98k fired to 1,000 yards against an 18 inch target (human upper torso size), using handloaded 200 gr Sierra Match King projectiles (BC . 520), achieving 3 hits out of 4 tries once zeroed in, and this with a 60 year old rifle in very windy weather:
    YouTube - WWII German Mauser 98K rifle at 1,000 yards
    Reply With Quote
      #14  
    Unread 05-01-2010, 10:57 AM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Mar 2002
    Location: Wyoming
    Posts: 2,612
    Re: 8x57mm cartridge

    I have hunted with the 8mm rem mag and taken several animals with it. It shoots a 200 grain bullet 3100 fps which is 400 fps faster than your quote on the 8x57 mauser. Neither are very good choices for long range hunting. The BC's you quoted are full metal jacket boattail bullets that are worthless as hunting bullets. With quality hunting bullets no 8mm is a very good choice for long range hunting. Just way to many far better options. Could I sit on my 1000 yard range and take out a human size target with an 8mm. Sure I could, but that doesn't make it a good choice for long range hunting when there are so many other far better options.
    __________________
    Predictions are difficult, especially when they involve the future
    Reply With Quote
    Reply

    Bookmarks

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes


    Similar Threads for: 8x57mm cartridge
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    What makes a big game cartridge also a good varmit cartridge? Mule Long Range Hunting & Shooting 12 05-13-2012 01:34 AM
    Fired Cartridge vs. Loaded Cartridge Neck Size? kodiakoutdoors Reloading 8 03-27-2011 10:05 AM
    Best .277 cal cartridge? nathank Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 12 11-13-2009 04:51 PM
    SMc CArtridge anyone ever use one some beach Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics 0 04-01-2006 09:32 PM
    .416/.338 Cartridge? RMulhern Equipment Discussions 17 11-02-2004 02:34 AM


    All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
    All content ©2010-2015 Long Range Hunting, LLC