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7mm rem mag velocity

 
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  #1  
Old 01-10-2013, 01:04 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Caldwell, ID
Posts: 204
7mm rem mag velocity

New here, I don't know if this is the right forum. After a ton of reading I am puzzled why my velocities aren't higher. I had a new 26" shilen barrel installed a while back. I have tried imr4831, rotumbo, RL22, RL25, all as high as 1gr above max. None can move a 162SST above 2800fps. The chamber was cut wrong and has like .100" freebore. I have de-fouled the barrel several times trying to get different results. I was going to toss the barrel and buy a new one when my new gun smith suggested cutting the barrel back .200" and rechamber. I don't want to invest in a barrel I don't have confidence in and low velocities. The old 24" barrel used to shoot 160 game kings 3050fps and 1.5" group at 200 yrds. The shilen can't make a 4" group at 100 yrds, at less than 2800fps. Should I rechamber, or follow my gut and buy a lilja?
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: N.D.
Posts: 3,164
Re: 7mm rem mag velocity

All barrels are different, and quite frankly I'm pushing my 7rem(factory 26") to get much over 3K with a 150 and 3100 fps with a 140. I'm using 7828 on 150's and I went to 4064 on the 140's for accuracy reasons and the dang thing didn't go more than a few fps faster with slower burning powder anyway.
I'd think about re-chambering to 7stw as the boiler room will help with speed more than pushing your 7rem hard.

I re-read the end of your post, and I'd wrap the barrel around a fence-post if it won't shoot. I would still think about 7stw.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2013, 08:37 AM
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Re: 7mm rem mag velocity

because chronographs dont like and loading manuals do.
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2013, 09:14 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,624
Re: 7mm rem mag velocity

Quote:
Originally Posted by upacreek View Post
New here, I don't know if this is the right forum. After a ton of reading I am puzzled why my velocities aren't higher. I had a new 26" shilen barrel installed a while back. I have tried imr4831, rotumbo, RL22, RL25, all as high as 1gr above max. None can move a 162SST above 2800fps. The chamber was cut wrong and has like .100" freebore. I have de-fouled the barrel several times trying to get different results. I was going to toss the barrel and buy a new one when my new gun smith suggested cutting the barrel back .200" and rechamber. I don't want to invest in a barrel I don't have confidence in and low velocities. The old 24" barrel used to shoot 160 game kings 3050fps and 1.5" group at 200 yrds. The shilen can't make a 4" group at 100 yrds, at less than 2800fps. Should I rechamber, or follow my gut and buy a lilja?
Velocity and free bore go hand and hand and .100 free bore with the 162 may not be enough.

First I would recomend just cutting a new SAAME chamber just enough to clean up the old one
and set back the shoulder Buy one thread (1/16 th) this should correct the chamber problem and save the barrel.

Shilen makes good barrels and if you have a "Select Match" there should be nothing wrong with
It. However there chambering leaves something to be desired and if they chambered it It is
possible that you could have a bad chamber.

Lilja Is my number one choice of barrels and if you decide to change barrels you can,t go wrong
with one of his barrels.

I always recommends using a SAMME reamer unless you know an extremely lot about reloading,
to avoid problems. Load your ammo to fit in your magazine and there should be no problems and
don't worry about how much case capacity is used up with the big bullets. (Faster powders will
compensate for this).

H 4831 was allways my favorite powder for the 7 mm rem mag and velocities were very good.
(The standard factory load was a 140 grain bullet at 3175 ft/sec in a 26" barrel.) Most factory
rifles would be pressed to do 3125 ft/sec with this load.

Custom barrels should come close to this with the 140s but larger bullets will be noticeable slower
in 24" tubes. I had a match rifle in 7mm RM that had a 31" shilen select match barrel for shooting
1000 yard matches that with the case loaded "Very Hot" Would produce 3154 ft/sec with a 168 grain
SMK using H 4831.

If after the barrel is changed or fixed, it doesn't shoot well try another bullet. (Some barrels
just dont like every bullet and some experimenting has to be done).

Maybe this will help.

J E CUSTOM
__________________
"PRESS ON"
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Caldwell, ID
Posts: 204
Re: 7mm rem mag velocity

So back in '98 I really played with many bullets and loads. Finally found the combo that worked. 160 game king 3050fps and 1.5" at 200yrds. For 5 years, I could dial that in before elk season and kill what I aimed at. When my dad killed his 7x8 bull he ran out of shells (5) shooting 620yrds. I handed him mine and 3 rounds later had a flat elk. He only missed 2 times, but his 270 just didn't pack enough load at that range. My gun was accurate enough to hit twice in the neck and once in the back. In '04 the gun just would not dial in to better than 3" at 200 yrds (I used the gun whistle pig hunting in the spring). I missed a large elk ranged at 620yrds that year. I know I hit him he just didn't fall. I never recovered that elk. First elk in 14 years of hunting that I hit and didn't take home. I was sickened. After that considered 300win mag, but every elk (except this year) I have ever killed were with the 7mmRM my dad gave me when I was 11. I don't want to give up on the gun for that reason. 8 out of 10 elk I have shot were between 400 and 550 yards. Due to my experience in '04 I have been leaning toward 175 sierra or 180 berger for elk. The game kings run around .430BC and I want more confidence beyond 500yrds. The Shilen is 1/9 twist, 26". I have tried 160GK, 162SST's, 175 sierras, 180 bergers between 2500 and 2825fps. Every load shot in groups of 5, chonographed, recorded results. Several poweders at many different charges. The old brass doesn't even think about going into the new chamber, but the new chamber has dark black powder burns at the neck on every case shot through it. All new Winchester brass has been used. Primer pockets cleaned and uniform, full sizing done. Tried different set backs on the bullet from 'almost don't fit in the mag' to deep in the case (relative to 7mmRM). Because I cannot ever get the bullet near the lands I wonder if that is some of my accuracy problems. I do not know who chambered the barrel, shilen or my gun smith. I am not impressed with it though. I also have a 7mmWSM. Not super accurate, but fun to shoot. Manuals indicate the REM MAG could have better velocities than the WSM. Any one have real experience with these two? I am not convinced on the WSM yet, though it killed last years elk.
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2013, 11:59 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 848
Re: 7mm rem mag velocity

id consider passing on those shots your not absolutely sure your going to make a vital shot the FIRST time. A gun and load accurate enough to hit twice in the neck and once in the back IS NOT accurate enough for that range. I know this is a long range forum but not everyone is capable of shooting live animals at 600 yards no matter what equiptment or load they use. I personaly wont take a shot on a live animal past 500 yards. I know my skill level and am the first to admit i have limitations. Im not try to critisize you. Just maybe give you a differnt perspective on what your doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by upacreek View Post
So back in '98 I really played with many bullets and loads. Finally found the combo that worked. 160 game king 3050fps and 1.5" at 200yrds. For 5 years, I could dial that in before elk season and kill what I aimed at. When my dad killed his 7x8 bull he ran out of shells (5) shooting 620yrds. I handed him mine and 3 rounds later had a flat elk. He only missed 2 times, but his 270 just didn't pack enough load at that range. My gun was accurate enough to hit twice in the neck and once in the back. In '04 the gun just would not dial in to better than 3" at 200 yrds (I used the gun whistle pig hunting in the spring). I missed a large elk ranged at 620yrds that year. I know I hit him he just didn't fall. I never recovered that elk. First elk in 14 years of hunting that I hit and didn't take home. I was sickened. After that considered 300win mag, but every elk (except this year) I have ever killed were with the 7mmRM my dad gave me when I was 11. I don't want to give up on the gun for that reason. 8 out of 10 elk I have shot were between 400 and 550 yards. Due to my experience in '04 I have been leaning toward 175 sierra or 180 berger for elk. The game kings run around .430BC and I want more confidence beyond 500yrds. The Shilen is 1/9 twist, 26". I have tried 160GK, 162SST's, 175 sierras, 180 bergers between 2500 and 2825fps. Every load shot in groups of 5, chonographed, recorded results. Several poweders at many different charges. The old brass doesn't even think about going into the new chamber, but the new chamber has dark black powder burns at the neck on every case shot through it. All new Winchester brass has been used. Primer pockets cleaned and uniform, full sizing done. Tried different set backs on the bullet from 'almost don't fit in the mag' to deep in the case (relative to 7mmRM). Because I cannot ever get the bullet near the lands I wonder if that is some of my accuracy problems. I do not know who chambered the barrel, shilen or my gun smith. I am not impressed with it though. I also have a 7mmWSM. Not super accurate, but fun to shoot. Manuals indicate the REM MAG could have better velocities than the WSM. Any one have real experience with these two? I am not convinced on the WSM yet, though it killed last years elk.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2013, 01:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Caldwell, ID
Posts: 204
Re: 7mm rem mag velocity

Maybe I should clarify. I want my rifle to be accurate so I can have the same or more confidence that I used to have. I paid to have a new barrel due to the gun not performing. It literally cut my shooting distance down to 200 yards by time the old barrel was removed. I have shot several guns out of the box that shot as well as mine did when I gave up on the barrel. After I bought the shilen barrel I had a bedded down bull that I could not get closer to than 630 yards due to terrain. I could not take the shot no matter how bad I wanted to mount the bull on my wall and his meat in the freezer. Another hunter shot from around 800 yards 13 times and wounded the elk. I met the guy this season and ripped him pretty hard about his unethical shot. Latter that season he fired 8 times at a spike 550 yards to kill it. I have been in the same area for 19 years and know it well. Please don't mistake me for being the guy who takes shots due to lack of stalking skills or knowledge of the animal. As far as my dad's shot I would not have made that shot myself, but it was deep in a revine bedded down in the only clearing and due to how steep the terrain getting closer was not good in his opinion. I have no idea what he was aiming at other than he was concerned the elk's head was still up and he left his shells at the horse 100 yrds away.
I stated earlier that in 14 years of hunting elk I have only wounded one that didn't come home with me. I was sick. I admit it was my error and bad judgment. Out of 11 elk recovered only 2 had non fatal shots for the first shot. Of the ones that had 2 holes the second was just a follow up shot to finish what was not a flat elk. Only 2 have required more than 2 holes. I am not saying that I am the best, I have a lot to learn. I have been very happy with game kings as they just plain take elk down right now in their tracks. I would like, however, to up my skill to the next level. I want to stretch out another 100 yards past what I had extensive practice shooting. To be honest I see shots or hear about them out 8-9-1200yards and I want to say its horrible, but I am hopeful one day I can get to that level. My dad, bless his heart, raised me in hunting and uses the 'instinctive' technique in which he is very effective with. I am a little more technical and want prescision. My question was related to the barrel that I have now shoots at a lower velocity (by 2-300fps) than my old barrel. I don't know if it's the chamber or the barrel, but its not right. I came here looking to get input as to my next move. I am not offended by your concern, I share your concern. I won't be satisfied until I can knock over 6" plates at 600yards 8 out of 10 shots. That is what I used to do at 500 yards. Any hope my WSM could ever out perform the RM? I don't know if I should invest in the WSM or sell it. Any input is appreciated.
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