close
Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics

Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics


Reply

7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:56 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Central MT
Posts: 859
Re: 7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

Thanks for the info. It will be interesting to get some hard data on temp sensitivity...especially since I have a new jug sitting on the reloading bench.

Thanks for the tests.
__________________
Shoot CONFIDENT, Shoot SMART, Shoot STRAIGHT
Reply With Quote

  #9  
Old 09-22-2013, 08:33 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: clearfield county , Pa
Posts: 626
Re: 7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

I've played with RL17 in a 24" 7-08 . I'm getting 3080 fps with a 140 berger , no pressure signs and good brass life . RL33 is supposedly using the same technology as RL 17 . I expect it will also be a good powder for increasing velocity . I've just bought a 8 pound jug of RL33 and some 300 gr accubonds for a new 30" 338 lapua . I'm still waiting on a few things before I can get shooting this rifle , so I have no data to share . thanks for sharing your info . BTW , I don't seem to have the temp sensitivity issue with RL17 or RL22 that I always read about . Jim
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-30-2015, 06:17 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: northwest of texas 1800 miles
Posts: 86
Re: 7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

kirby, this is mark fox from " Bad Ass GunWorks " i have a cartrage simular to you 7mm allen mag same parent case. shoulder moved foward .110 foward then ultra improved 42 deg shoulder wc 872 volume of 123.3 gr. 190 matrix at at 3345 fps avrage 7 fps dev. .300 " 5 shot at 100 yards. I would like your advice on somthing. wc 872 powder is to slow on the 32" pac.nor pipe. No velocity change beyond 103.0 grains to 107.0 gr. same velocity avrage recorded. using reloader 33 preasure shows up at 104.0 gr. 3312 fps. to fast. i need somthing betweed rl33 and wc872 there is no good source for slow burn rate charts. they all say somthing diffrent. Any ideas on what to try. shooting for 3400 fps with 190 matrix or 3375 fps. berger 195 hY. thanks Mark fox 503-267-4311
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-31-2015, 08:33 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,839
Re: 7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

Mark,

When I designed my 7mm AM, I played with designs nearly exactly like yours, moved my shoulder forward 100 thou, did not go that extreme on shoulder angle because I have seen some serious issues with these extremely sharp shoulders with powder bridging and as the cases get older, they can get a bit finicky with shoulder collapse when bumping the shoulder.

Also found that there was no increase in performance over my design so kept it as is.

Anyway, I am a bit surpised your not seeing more velocity. My 7mm AM in my Raptor rifles is easily pushing the 190 matrix to 3400 fps in 30" barrel lengths. My personal light Raptor T-Hunter will push them to 3350 fps and it only has a 27" barrel length. These are using RL33.

If your looking for a powder between RL33 and WC872, you may want to try US869 from Hodgdon. I have found its a bit faster burning then most lots of WC872 but lots of WC872 can vary ALOT depending on what you get. I have seen it noticeably slower then US869 and some lots nearly identical so just depends on what you have for burn rate. Guess that's what we get with the lower price.

Not sure if it will work and you WILL notice velocity variation shooting in different temps with all of these ball powders. Sometimes DRAMATIC variation with a chambering like this.

Your pressure issues with RL33 may be your shoulder angle. Hard to say but I am surprised you can not get more velocity with your barrel length.

H-50BMG would probably be ideal in burn rate for your application but unfortunately, this powder is so bulky, I would say you have zero chance to get up to top working pressures and I would suspect powder bridging would be a serious problem.

Good luck!!
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-31-2015, 11:10 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: northwest of texas 1800 miles
Posts: 86
Re: 7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

I statred this project about 10 years ago my 1st design was just like yours. but with a 42 deg shoulder 32" pipe 180 bergers were 3475 to 3500 fps with w872 100% 103.0 gr no preasure. my first reamer had a .012 body taper. I then moved the shoulder foward and did a .008 body taper and went the 42 deg. shoulder again. Most of my cartrages have .008 or less body taper 40 to 42 deg shoulder. It has worked very well for me. the only down side to it is chambers must be perfect & highly polished. Case preasure desplacement and a more localized burn were my reasons. it has worked very well for me in the past. my 6.5 perseus pushes a 140 gr vld at 3785 with a 34" pipe. 160 matrix at 3592 fps. my 6.5 taz same design off wsm case 140 vld 3495 fps with 28" pipe 73.9 gs of magpro my 8mm kronos custom 265 gr bullets (b.c. .776 bc.) 3471 fps 34" pipe 139.5 gr of retembo. and the list goes on a total of 21 cartrages. We all do things that sometimes it only makes sence to us. we live & learn. my 284 tyrannos will find it sweet spot. just need the write combo. Accuracy has never been the issue. I use to shoot ftr open ( high master) now i just build them. 13 of my guns were at sw berger nationals. I gained high master with my 6.5 perseus. have you ever used vv 570 powder i think i will try it along with the us 869 thanks mark fox 503-267-4311
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-31-2015, 12:25 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: northwest of texas 1800 miles
Posts: 86
Re: 7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

p.s. Kirby most of my custom cartrages are not for sale and will never be owned by anyone but me and those on my ftr team. The navy and 3 contractors do use the 6.5 ares and the 10mm crebrus. So those of you who were thinking dont ask. see kirby for your super performance needs.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-31-2015, 05:58 PM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fort Shaw, Montana
Posts: 6,839
Re: 7mm Allen Magnum/RL33/180 gr Berger testing

I have found burn rate of VV570 and RL33 to be extremely similar but I have also found that VV570 has a higher burn temp and is harder on throat life then RL33.

RL33 seems to be very sensitive to bullet positioning in relationship to the lands. Seat ogive within 10 thou of the lands and you get very consistent muzzle velocities. Seat much off the lands and you can see some very wide velocity spreads.

VV570 does not seem to be effected as much by ogive to land relationship.

RL33 also seems to be a bit dirty until you get up to its upper range of working pressures but loaded to top pressures. similar to other stick powders.

US869 is also a powder that likes to be loaded to its top pressures, like most of the other ultra slow burning ball powders, keep it in the upper 5% of its pressure range and burns relatively clean for a ball powder. Under that and like WC872, you will need to really stay on top of the carbon build up.
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC