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7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

#43
07-05-2005, 10:06 PM
 Silver Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: GF Montana Posts: 467
Re: 7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple"> Ok If anyone can shoot a hole through this theory, I welcome that shot.
This is more or less an [sic] emperical process based on accurate barrel
life in several calibers as reported to me by lots of folks plus a
couple dozen barrels I've worn out. All I did was study the data and
determine what math would give a best-fit formula. And if someone has
a better method, I'd like to know what it is.
</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a MS in Applied math. Here is my review:

In scientific parlance, you don't have a theory - perhaps a conjecture. In colloquial terms, you can use theory.

&gt;&gt;All I did was study the data and determine what math would give a best-fit formula.

How did you measure best fit? I can easily get an exact fit to your data using splines or high order polynomials. Would a high order poly be a better predictor?; no - they oscillate wildly to fit thru each data point. How about a spline? Nope, splines can't be used to extrapolate data.

You have answered the problem yourself.

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="purple">
But this empirical formula has limits. The old .22 rimfire long rifle
burning 1 grain of powder in a bore whose capacity is 24 grains would
calculate to give a barrel life of some 1,728,000 rounds.
</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

IE, you can't extrapolate.
#44
07-05-2005, 10:42 PM
 Official LRH Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Fort Shaw, Montana Posts: 6,841
Re: 7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

Alremkin,

No solid details yet on the 338 Allen Mag. I will tell you the reamer is ordered and finalized. Also, the test receiver is ordered as well as stock and barrel. The test rifle will be a 55 to 60 lb heavy rifle designed specifically for extreme range shooting.

That said, I have reseached the possibilities of a light rifle in the 338 Allen Mag and will tell you that there is a receiver that will work with this round that weighs in at only 48 oz. Now this is not an ultralight receiver but for the power level of this wildcat, this is a pretty slim receiver.

I suspect that it would be very possible to build a 12 to 14 lb rifle in the 338 Allen Mag with a 30" #7, heavy fluted barrel using this receiver and a McMillan stock.

Whatever design the 338 Allen Mag is, I will say I am trying to get Richard Graves to get tooled up for a 400-425 gr .375" bullet to use on the same case configuration.

Sorry I am not being very kind. Details will be coming by the end of the summer. In fact bullets will be in the air by around October so you should get the entire scoop before then I promise you.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
#45
07-06-2005, 09:21 AM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Potomac River Posts: 5,070
Re: 7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

Big Bore

I wrote up a long post agreeing with you but then I remembered Kirby has asked for "peace". So I have erased it.
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The Smokin Fur Rifle Club
#46
07-06-2005, 10:04 AM
 Official LRH Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Fort Shaw, Montana Posts: 6,841
Re: 7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

Buffalobob,

Thanks for your restraint. If anyone has anything to bring up for or against the Allen Mags I will freely discuss their opinions, my reasonings and design features and we can all keep our blood pressure where it needs to be.

Hell, their just rifle rounds.

I do need to make a correction to the componants list for the 7mm Allen Mag test rifle. I am using a Shilen 27" Match stailness barrel, not a Lilja.

I apologize for this. I use so many Liljas its hard to type anything else [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!! Anyway, the 30", 1-7 liljas are coming but I wanted to throw some bullets now so I ordered in a Shilen 1-9 from MidwayUSA. Just wanted to clear that up.

This barrel is polishing up well except for the bottom land at the muzzle, still fouling pretty heavily, every other part of the bore is great but this one land still fouls for about an inch into the bore.

Anway, I had to range test some rifles so I could ship them and decided to drop three through the 7mm Allen Mag on paper and see what this light contoured barrel would do with virgin fireforming loads.

The first two shot cut each other in half and the third landed slightly higher for a total group ctc measurement of 0.626". Nothing spectacular but still, 0.626" ctc for three shots with virgin brass that undergoes a major transformation upon fireforming I feel this is very good. Bullet run outs were also in the .0004 to 0.006 range for these three rounds so that is pretty good considering that. I suspect with straight formed brass, this round will average well under my 1/2moa requirement.

It seems that this round is following suit with the shoulder crush fit theory and resulting in very accurate fireforming performance, totally usible for field use.

Just correcting my mistake mainly!!

Hope to get some serious load data developed by the end of this weekend.

Kirby Allen(50)
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
#47
07-06-2005, 12:28 PM
 Writers Guild Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,459
Re: 7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

Kirby, congrats on a growing number of performance wildcat cartridges. Ah horsepower...

Great to hear that Richard is also coming up with cutting edge bullets. That will drive development of LR shooting to a new level.

Question for you on the WCC872. Where to do you buy it from and are there more then one lot? I am aware that this is surplus pulldown from military cannon fodder. Well priced but always concerned that some could be good and another batch - garbage.

As to barrel life, sort of like asking about gas mileage before stomping on a big block drag racer. Performance costs money. How many barrels do you want to buy?

Loving it...

Jerry
#48
07-06-2005, 01:30 PM
 Official LRH Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Fort Shaw, Montana Posts: 6,841
Re: 7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

Jerry,

I get my WC872 from Jeff Bartlett at www.gibrass.com.

I do not know if there are different lots of powder, I am sure there is but I have only gotten one from Jeff.

I will say I have been burned in the past with poor quality surplus powder and since have not even bothered with the stuff. A fellow poster e-mailed me when I was loading for the 257 Allen Mag and told me about Jeff so I e-mailed him and he said his powder was fresh and clean and would perform extremely well in all my Allen Mags to date.

I ordered in 32 lbs and Jeff was true to his word. Great powder and came to \$188 including Haz frieght and normal shipping costs, at \$5.80 a lbs I can certainly not find any fault with this powder.

Good SHooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
__________________
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
#49
07-06-2005, 01:59 PM
 Gold Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: N.C Posts: 540
Re: 7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

Jerry the WC872 powder is listed as new powder and the WC760 is pulldown.
I am working with the WC872 in my 7RUM and have been satisfied so far.
jwp475 is also working with it in the 300RUM with good results.
Jeff at gibrass has good customer service and fast shipping. My powder was here in 3 days.
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