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.375/416 Barret?

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  #43  
Unread 03-30-2010, 09:35 PM
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Re: .375/416 Barret?

eddybo,

The case looks just like a Cheytac only fatter. 180gns of US 869 to the bottom of the neck shoulder junction, should be plenty of room for the large bullet. The case has a .012 body taper, 35deg shoulder. Heavy duty brass. I have been pondering on how to go with the reamers, i have the 416 version and was thinking about having them re ground to the 375, but now me thinks i will just order a new set so i will have both. I can't emagine what kind of speeds your going to get from the large case. I'm thinking i might be able to get an easy 3400 with the 350gn predators or the 355 GS customs. I dont think the SMKS will hold up to the speeds this can push.

I have several options i am looking at in building this rig, one is a standard type LR gun, my second choice (leaning) is a bull pup tube gun. I have several drawings i did a long time ago and dusted them off tonight. I would still use the full size action with a modified recoil lug system inside a split tube. I may start with a large dia tube and profile the od into a Hex shape, this would add to the cosmetics. With a carbon wrapped barrel i'm sure i could get the weight down to Idaho standards.



The center line is where the two halves will come together, sorta like a huge barrel block. What i was thinking is machining out the tube to fit the action and bed it in for a perfect fit. The other option is no split, just machine the inside dia of the tube so the action will slip in. Still in the dreaming stage! A magazine could be incorporated as well, but the trigger system would raise some design issues.

Im open to all ideas! This could be incorporated into any caliber rifle.

Dave
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  •   #44  
    Unread 03-30-2010, 09:54 PM
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    Re: .375/416 Barret?

    I like it Dave! I do have to admit, it does resemble the Barrett design, as well as the Desert Tactical, but you can make vast improvements from there! I think the design is great! I say leave it as a tube for strength and rigidity. Allow the bolt to be removed from the detachable butt plate (again, strength). Form an insert that will bed the action in the frame/tube and support it for strength, but only from one point...like free-floating the barrel and action! This is somewhat easy to do if you machine the piece with a wide base that uses a recoil lug block to lock into the tube frame. Then allow the bolt to lock directly into the barrel/barrel extention, and use a smooth, lightweight nylon bolt guide. Honestly, that is much like the DTA HTI rifle, but you can make a few improvments in not having a quick change barrel.

    Now for the tricky part...what about electronic ignition? Oh, I know I hit a subject of much debate, but it's worth a thought or two. I worked with Crane on converting one of Anzio's take-down 20mm's to fire electronicly primed Navy cases, and it worked out very well! Trigger can be as light as you want...now what do you think a 20mm primer would do in that case?

    What if we made the forward ignition tube a (solid) conductor and placed a standard Remington Etronix rifle primer fixed to it inside the case about 1/2" short of the neck? Wow, pushing it ain't I but brilliant. Just remember, I said it first.

    -AP


    P.S. This isn't all BS, I've actually worked with electronic priming systems quite a bit, and I have found them to be superb. Only thing is they are expensive primers...and don't even try to get the big ones!
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      #45  
    Unread 03-30-2010, 10:47 PM
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    Re: .375/416 Barret?

    AP,
    I know absolutly nothing about the electronic ignition systems.

    I do have an electronic trigger that i was looking into marketing one day.

    I made up several rifles that had the bbl extension that the bolt locked into on
    an aluminum frame. I like using a solid steel action inside the tube, i think this will
    be one of the best improvments for long range accuracy. No take downs either, maybe
    a switch bbl but thats all.

    More ideas to come

    Dave
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      #46  
    Unread 03-31-2010, 08:12 AM
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    Re: .375/416 Barret?

    eddybo,

    I found a picture of the project i was thinking about doing many moons ago. It is similar
    to what your doing but i was going to use the 408 cal, at that time there was no high BC
    375cal bullets. The case i was going to use was the 50 Spotter, this is a CNC turned rendition of
    what my case would of looked like.



    I can't wait to see your finished project and tests!

    Dave
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      #47  
    Unread 03-31-2010, 03:23 PM
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    Re: .375/416 Barret?

    BD408,

    Curious why you think the 350 gr SMK would have any problems at 3400 fps? I have never seen any SMK bullet above 6mm bore size have any issued with velocity even up to and including 3600 fps.

    That said, MOST solids seem to have serious accuracy problems at velocity much over 3200 fps. Some will do a bit better but most drop off in accuracy dramatically and it seems the higher the BC the harder velocity is on these bullets.

    I will admit that I have pushed the 300 gr SMK and 350 gr SMK FAR harder then they should be in my 338 AM and 375 AM using the old TTI cases which are simply amazing and sorely missed. In my 40" 338 AM I broke 3600 fps with the 300 gr SMK and with a 36" 375 AM I pushed the 350 gr SMK right to 3500 fps. Is this a practical load, certainly not, far to high in pressure. My goal was to see if the SMK had any limits as far as accuracy and velocity were concerned. Never was there any real change in accuracy.

    Certainly we could do much better with a different bullet design but the 350 gr SMK does shoot very well in most barrels and is not limited to specific bore diameter that many solid bullets are handicapped by. Call me old fashioned but give me a lead core bullet over any solid just for their reliability in a variaty of bore diameters.

    Also a bit surpised that your Bertram is as strong as your reporting. I have never seen any of their brass handle pressure well at all, weither it be the 408 CT, 505 Gibbs or 577 Tyrann case. They must have REALLY beefed up the case head on the cases your using.

    I have talked with Jamison about building me a new case. Will not offer any details yet but it would work in 408 CT receivers, single shot or repeaters and would offer case capacities roughly 20-22 grains higher in powder charge then my 338 and 375 AM.

    Only problem and the main reason I have not gone full steam on this is that brass would be estimated in the $6.50 to $8.00 range each and of all the potential customers I have talked to, they said they would not spend the money on the brass to get another 100 or even 200 fps over the 338 and 375 AM and have brass that is 2 to nearly 3 times more expensive then the fully formed and correct headstamped AMs based on the 408 CT.

    Just wondering what market there will be for a rifle that shoots a round that takes $8.00 out of your pocket every time you buy a piece of brass. That has always been my hold up with these projects that go beyond the 408 CT case size. Hell, the 50 BMG is 1/2 the cost of even 408 CT brass. Admittedly, its much larger then needed but its cheap. Just wish we had some good brass at reasonable prices.

    God I miss the TTI brass of days gone by. With that brass, the 408 CT based rounds would easily match anything on the 50 Spotter or 416 Barrett case. Oh well.



    I have polled many of my customers that are interested or looking into a rifle in this class and ask
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    Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

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      #48  
    Unread 03-31-2010, 07:42 PM
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    Re: .375/416 Barret?

    Kirby,
    Pretty simple on the brass, TTI was made by Bertram, ive never had any problems with his brass. He sent me a bunch of 408 brass
    to play with and have various head stamps. TTi, BB, and one other i cant remember. He told me the whole TTi story.
    Most of my projects are personal or special ordered to customer wants. Big Boys and their toys.
    I have several other projects that are for me alone and would not dream of offering them
    to the public. Most of my customers are only in it for pushing the extreme, i dont deal with
    rem's, savages, rebarreling or truing actions. 95% of my work is dedicated to the cheytac case and its wildcats.


    ~if you have to ask the price, you cant aford it
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      #49  
    Unread 03-31-2010, 10:56 PM
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    Re: .375/416 Barret?

    That is very interesting, not at all the story I got about the TTI brass but no matter.

    I have some Bertram and TTI brass here along with the Jamison brass and some samples of some cases that were supposed to be made in germany. I have sectioned all of them to measure case head thickness and case wall thickness. All are significantly different in case head thickness and case wall thickness except the TTI and supposed german made brass.

    Not only that but I had them all hardness tested and the Bertram brass was the softest of the four. Jamison second softest and the TTI and Gernan brass were nearly identical. Even in case color, the TTI and German brass were nearly identical in color with nearly identical shoulder and neck annealing marks. The Jamison and Bertram brass were very unique in brass color. This was polished color, just to make sure some cases were not tarnished to effect color of brass.

    If Bertram made the TTI brass, they really made it alot different then their own headstamped version of the 408 CT brass. Perhaps they are willing to use different alloys and make brass with different head hardness for specific customers. If they will do that, I think I will be getting ahold of them and see what they can do.

    I only wish that we could get a brass maker to offer a Lapua strength 408 CT case!!! The jamison cases are decent and very functional, in fact work very well, just not the strongest in the case head is all.

    Personally, I do not believe in your last comment but thats just me. Unfortunately thats getting to be a pretty common opinion these days.
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    Kirby Allen(50)

    Allen Precision Shooting
    Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

    Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

    Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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