35 Whelen AI vs. 358 Hawk

[Bull45cal.]

So what do you guys think is better? I want to rebarrel my Savage long action with something fitting for a long action. The rifle was originally .30-06, and I want to do the best conversion with the least amount of work. I'm looking at the 35 Whelen AI because it is cheaper to get a barrel and dies for. Anyone compaired these cartridges before?

[3006savage]

I know nothing of the Hawk and that tells me to pick the whelen. I really like the whelen and its efficiency so I am very biased. Its terminal performance is exceptional for the case size. The whelen with a 280 grain aframe is as good as it gets for short to medium range big/dangerous north american game. The 225 grain accubond at 2800 fps is actually pretty flat for a pumpkin launcher like the whelen and good for elk at 400 plus yards.

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I agree the 35 whelen imp is a very good overlooked round. I have it and a 35 gibbs. Both are very good elk and bear rounds. I have never heard of a 358 hawk. What is it?

[Bull45cal.]

Long Time Long Ranger,

As best as I can tell, the 358 Hawk is another version of the 35 Whelen AI. It seems to be a wilcat from the .30-06 case. I can't find the case drawings on it. Z-hat (www.z-hat.com ) is the one that builds the whole line of "Hawk" cartridges. It seems to get a little bit more velocity (50 fps or so) than the 35 Whelen AI (Imp). I didn't know if any of the big bore guys where using it.

[3006savage]

Originally Posted by Bull45cal.

Long Time Long Ranger,

As best as I can tell, the 358 Hawk is another version of the 35 Whelen AI. It seems to be a wilcat from the .30-06 case. I can't find the case drawings on it. Z-hat (www.z-hat.com ) is the one that builds the whole line of "Hawk" cartridges. It seems to get a little bit more velocity (50 fps or so) than the 35 Whelen AI (Imp). I didn't know if any of the big bore guys where using it.

After looking at the case design on the website I would be sceptical of any gains over the 35 Whelen AI. The hawk appears to have the same neck length as the AI. With the near parallel taper of the AI and 40 deg shoulder the AI is already getting nearly every bit of capacity that case has to offer. There is a Gibbs line that shortens the neck and lengthens the case which offers some additional capacity but even with that case much of the capacity is not actually usable because the short neck results in more case intrusion by the bullets if the OALs are the same.

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Thanks for the info on the hawk. I would stick to the AI or the gibbs. They are both proven rounds with reloading components easily available. My gibbs gets a few more fps than the AI. That comes at a cost. The gibbs neck is near .25 inches long with a .358 hole in it. This is definitely all you can get out of an '06 case if you want the mostest. A good rule of thumb is to not let the caliber diameter exceed the neck length for best performance. I like the gibbs line up to the 338. The 358 is a mighty big hole for such a short neck. Using the JRS design is better for this one if you want all you can get out of a 35 caliber on an '06 bolt face. It uses the 280 case which is just a bit longer and gives you a little more neck along with the extra powder capacity.

[loaders_loft]

I have a standard 35 whelen, made up from an old 700 ADL, with a 35 whelen takeoff cdL barrel fitted onto it. I'm shooting the 225gr TSX at 2575fps with varget. The recoil on this relatively light rifle is "stout" but not unbearable. Nothing special on the brass, just 30-06 brass through a 35 whelen FL die. The necks are a bit shorter than spec but does not seem to matter.

Last weekend I shot 2 hogs in a vineyard. One was shot up close in the neck - it destroyed about 4" of spine and the hog just fell over feet up. The 2nd was around 150yd, shot broadside, and only made it 2 rows over. Unfortunately, we went back to recover him 1 hour later and the coyotes had literally torn it apart.

I also shot a small coyote in the shoulder at 150 yds and it spun him around dead without completely exploding the lildog. I'm not sure the bullet really opened up but hey, it worked.

Bottom line here is that I am completely happy with this cartridge and rifle. The gun was pretty ugly (rusty & pitted barrel) when I got it, but the gunsmith cleaned it up pretty well and the new takeoff CDL barrel made it look a bit nicer. I'm not concerned about scratching it up like when I used to hog hunt with my win model 70 featherweight (beautiful) rifle.

I'm sure You won't be disappointed with the whelen in any form...