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338 twist rate, what are your thoughts?

 
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2008, 01:16 AM
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Location: Everett, WA
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Your experiences certianly have me feeling better about the 1:10 barrel I ordered. If I couldn't stablize the 300 SMK I would be more than dissapointed. I would have to order another barrel. Thanks again.
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2008, 01:29 AM
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Location: Mill Bay BC Canada
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Thanks for all the replies and information.

I'm a long way from ever pulling the trigger on this one, probably better part of a year away. The A5 stock is on order as well as the barrel. I ordered a 9.5 twist from Rock Creek which will take some time as well. Hopefully it's not too fast.
I'm looking forward to it all coming together one day. Almost like a new family member
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:55 AM
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I am not saying the faster twists will not work well, they are just not needed with a magnum chambering in 338 caliber for the 300 gr SMK bullets. None of the mentioned chamberings will come anywhere near close to the velocity level needed to cause accuracy problems from to much RPMs.

The SMK has a relatively heavy jacket, as such, it can take some serious strains, again, mentioning those bullets in my 338 AM at 3400 fps. I have even pushed them to 3500 fps in my heavy rifle during load development and accuracy was and always has been 1/2 minute or better if I do my job in good conditions.

If you have a 1-9, 1-9.3, 1-9.5, 1-9.7 or 1-10 on order, there is no reason to change your order, all will work great but I would love to see someone prove that one would be any better then the others.

The key is a quality barrel that has a twist rate true to the advertisement by the maker. Button pulled barrels tend to run a bit slower in rate then a cut rifled barrel but I have also heard that many button rifles barrel makers know this and order their tooling slightly faster then advertised so the end product is what is ordered.

Cut rifled barrels tend to be truer to advertised spec.

Simply put, a 1-10 will stabilize a 300 gr SMK in every condition I have tested them in at any velocity from 2700 fps up to 3500 fps with 1/2 moa accuracy and at ranges out to 2500 yards.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

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Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

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Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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  #25  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:16 AM
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The barrel I ordered is Shilen, any idea if their barrel twists are as advertized? I'm hopping to be able to hold 1/2 MOA to 1 mile.
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  #26  
Old 02-12-2008, 12:18 PM
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I will be brutally honest, if your looking to shoot a mile, I would spend your best money on the best barrel you can. Shilen has been making barrels for a long time but I would not classify them in the top rung of barrel makers.

I would look at Lilja, Rock, Broughton, Kreiger, Hart and so on. There are many others, these are just the ones I use the most and recommend because I know for a fact that the barrels will be shooters if I do my job as a rifle builder.

I am not saying a Shilen select match will not shoot extremly well, they generally do shoot well but consider what your trying to do here. 1 mile shooting is a game for only the finest of equipment if you want consistant results.

And to your expectations, 1/2 moa at a mile. Again, consider what your saying. 1/2 moa at 1000 yards is a hell of a feat. The best shooters in the world in good shooting conditions will have a hard time meeting this level of accuracy. If you could print 1/2 moa for every shot you would win most 1000 yard BR comps easily.

In generaly shooting conditions, anything under moa at 1000 yards is very good. Anything under 3/4 moa is exceptional. Anything even around 1/2 moa is something to really talk about.

Now step things out to a mile, thats 1760 yards, 75% father then 1000 yards. I tell my customers getting into long range that 800 yards is a hell of a long way to shoot. 1000 yards is noticably harder to get consistant groups at then 800 yards.

1200 yards is again noticably more difficult to shoot tight groups at.

1500 yards, I tell my customers is roughly twice as difficult to shoot quality groups than 1000 yards.

At a mile, if your holding under MOA, your doing DAMN good no matter how you are, what your shooting or the conditions your shooting in. In some conditions getting 2 moa groups would be a very good day.

I think you need to allow for a bit more latitude with your expectations or you may well be very unhappy and frustrated with the results in the end. I am not saying its impossible to shoot 1/2 moa at a mile but for the most part, that is something you will see only in the movies and in the BS ring around the camp fire....

JMO.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:23 PM
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Kirby, Great stuff. Thanks for sharing years of sweat and headscratching.
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2008, 12:04 AM
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I was unaware that Shilen was a second-rate barrel maker, I have one of their barrels on my 308 and can hold 1/4 MOA beyond 500yds. I've never shot beyond 1000yds and if I could hold MOA at 1760 I'd be very satisfied, but like I said, I'm "hopping" for 1/2 MOA (good conditions). I understand how much harder it is to be accurate as you extend the range. If the rifle will not hold MOA at 1 mile I will try replacing the barrel. At 1000yds I'm hoping for better than 1/2 MOA, but there's only one way to find out. I appreciate at all your experience at these ranges, that's why I joined you guys here, the other fourm I've been a part of for a while doesn't have so many guys with 1500Yd+ experience. I'm sure I'll have more questions once I get the rifle put together and try to reach my lofty (probaby rediculous) goals. This project reminds me of when I first mentioned my goal of shooting eggs at 500yds (other forum) now 5 eggs in a row is nothing special. It was a learning curve then and I plan to start the curve all over again (I'll atleast give it a shot). Thanks again, (I know I've been getting more from this forum than I'm giving) you guys are a great help and inspiration.
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Last edited by landcbeitner; 02-13-2008 at 12:11 AM.
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