I'm like a pit bull, once I get my teeth locked, I can't turn loose. I cant' turn loose here either, at least without this (last?) illustration. This forum has a small number of people and I think they are more motivated than most of the other forums, probably more knowledgeable and experienced, but still are letting the bigger picture get away from them. Not that I'm all that smart or expert except in maybe some areas.
I'm not making a case FOR or AGAINST the use of ANY cartridge in ANY receiver. I'm pointing out the holes, sometime gaping, in the arguments/opinions, some ways of looking at how to go about problem solving, some alternative ways of looking at (THIS) problem if it can be called a problem, and I base it is on EXPERIENCE and EXPERIMENTATION over 40 odd years.
I just might do that, AJ...I've been burned several times passing my email around...once burned, twice shy, Hey. I live 43 mile out in the boonies from a large town at the end of the OLD phone lines and have dial up. This forum is so graphically intense that it takes 5 minutes sometimes to load a page, and that doesn't include the problems of getting dumped for various reasons.
It take so long, basically, I don't have the time to keep doing this. As it is I usually start up then go fix my meals or do my toilet duties and so forth, then come back..When the weather is lousy I'm on the net, otherwise I'm in my shop, out shooting/testing, making pieces and parts, etc. I can go make a "something" to test, go reload/install, etc., go out to my range(100M, 155M and 340M), and test it, THEN go back and do whatever mods need done and test again. I'm NOT an expert in anything, but I can do just about anything I want within this shooting field
I don't know whether I will do a 338 Lapua or a RUM/EDGE, OR smoke test a Savage action just to destruction, it is a moot question to me, but it would be interesting to do. I might also add the fact that Savage did a Lazzeroni once and Rem is doing a 338 Lapua Police/militay right now. Comparing the data is an interesting aside, and certainly expected to stir the pot somewhat.
Here is some Load froma a Disk data for the 338 RUM, 338 Lapua and 338 WM. It illustrates what I've been saying, the gaping holes in many of the arguments, at least from my perspective and is apples to apples comparisons, except with the WM's powder use. Smaller case needs a slightly faster burning powder. BUT, for those who can understand ALL the nuances, powder use is also a variable use item.
Same BULLET, same COAL, same PRESSURE, same POWDER, just different cases.
You should also note the difference in case capacity is only 10gr H2O, which translates to about a 2.5% velocity increase (but not necessarily so) all other things being equal.
It also points up the WHY's the RUM case works much better for all the reasons, but also points up the fact that by turning the Lapua base to 0.550" you essentially have a RUM, BUT, with the extra strength the Lapua case has designed in, it would be my choice over the lower SAMMI specs of the RUM, but shot at the lower pressure.
You might just notice the small difference in velocity also AT THE SAME PRESSURES. You and I can start spliting flea hairs here, but it would be of little or no value. Keeping apples to apples would prove that.
BountyHunter, please note that going to a larger case at the same pressure as the 338 WM doesn't make it a 338RUM/LAPUA 338WM...it takes an extra 10% of a slower burning powder to give you an additional 200 fs...!!!
One other argument dissing "smoke testing" needs to be spoken to...way in the old days that's one of the methods of ascertaining MAX loads...it is still valid today as long as those doing it understand what the hell they are doing. It is done with all kinds of other calibers, has been done for the past 40 odd years that I KNOW of, it is safe as long as you approach it in a logical, safe manor and keep the stupidity to a minimum. And those doing the "stupid" doesn't make the process null or void. Mother nature has a way of dealing with those that need to learn the hard way.
I know for a fact that benchrest shooters, in the old days AND today(but less and less and we learn more and more), loaded a tight fitting chamber/receiver/bolt to well over max pressures to achieve a certain velocity. Because of the tight fit, the brass didn't have too many places to go and it lasted quite a few firings, but did "wear out" in time. Because of the "loosy-goosy" Savage fit, doing the same thing is totally uncalled for and probably is closely tied with the "setback problem". And there are ways to mitigate this problem.
For those that want an excellent visual presentation or pressure vs bolt/receivers, GOTO Varmint Al's website, you might learn something.
No one seems to get to upset about using the 338 RUM in a Rem OR a Savage, so here is the data.
No one has presented FACTUAL, EMPIRICAL, LOGICAL, SCIENTIFICALLY PRESENTED evidence including all the parameters, i.e., headspace, case data including number of times fired, powder, primer, COAL, tight or loose chamber, barrel brand or tightness, seating, throat depth, etc.
Many gunners don't have a clue that once the case fills the chamber, the brass has actually been over stressed and has passed the point of max yield. That you need to use a new case for EACH firing test, although I don't always and neither does all the "bigboys", plus using a factory cartridge to establish the amount of base expansion. This has bee cover many times in many books and publications, but NO ONE has mentioned following a logical step by step process to ascertain WHY one or two Savage actions experienced lug or receiver setback.
If you can't speak to me in this language then don't make a flat statement, make it a question or an opinion(not really worth a dam either) or an observation concerning YOUR experience with YOUR rifle and YOUR load and INCLUDE all the other pertainent information...THAT will go a long way in working through ANY problem with ANY cartridge or receiver.
I you want the pictures, save them as a picture NOT a URL because I don't leave pictures in Photobucket very long.
The wiggle words. I IN NO WAY CONDONE THE USE OF ANY RECEIVER FOR ANY WILDCAT OR FACTORY CARTRIDGE OUTSIDE THE PRESSURE RECOMMENDATON OF THE MAKER AND IN NO WAY RECOMMEND ANY FORM OF RELOADING BEYOND SAAMI RECOMMENDED PRESSURES.
Luck on your projects.