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338 Edge bullet for elk

 
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  #15  
Old 04-21-2011, 01:58 PM
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Re: 338 Edge bullet for elk

Thanks, is that out of a 300 RUM. About 3450 is about it for me with a 180 grain bullet. A guy let me use a few 177's and I had them at 3500 fps. Didn't have enough of them to do much other than one load and try it. They shot well but didn't seem to open up very well in the dirt behind the target.

Again, short answer to your question about the 338-300 RUM. If you plan on shooting beyond 1000 yards use the 300 grainers or similar high BC bullet. I was just ad-libbing that if you want to do that more horsepower than the RUM case is nice. I shoot the 300 grainers at 3065 fps and the 225's at 3440 fps out of my 28" barrel 338-378 wby. The last big bull elk (356) I shot with it a couple years ago was 908 yards with the 225 AB. Trivial shot, three shots all right through the chest. He traveled less than 50 yards total after jumping and staggering with each hit. First shot would have done it but I didn't know that and it was a half day trip and several miles to get to him.
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Last edited by Long Time Long Ranger; 04-21-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-21-2011, 03:07 PM
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Re: 338 Edge bullet for elk

Glad you joined in Spanker. It's good to hear from others who are shooting the 177's. I only loaded up to 100 gr of H1000 and thought I saw initial signs of pressure with a little over 3400 fps, but I might have been wrong. I might try more. I was getting 3500 plus with RL17 so I went with that. The max load seems to be about 90.2 with 90.5 showing some excessive pressure.

As far as LR performance on game with the 177's, I feel confident they will work as well as any bullet and probably better. Terminal performance is Gerard Schultz's most important concern in producing hunting bullets. The meplat is larger (about.069 by my measurement) than the CE's (.050) and the Bergers (.046) This is to the detriment of BC, but good for reliable expansion. The CE's seem to perform very (according to Cutting Edge) well with .050 meplat, so I'm not too concerned about the 177's on that score.

It's interesting you say they should be seated to the lands because I was thinking the same thing but was told they were not picky about jump to the lands. To load these as a repeater in the 300 RUM, 700 action, I'll have to seat them with the forward driving band right down to the neck and trim the case to about 2.830. (BTW, you do know you cant seat the forward driving band into the neck.) This means with a min throat of about .110 they would be jumping maybe .090 to the lands. So I guess the 177's will have to shoot where they are seated with whatever the jump is if i want to fit them in the mag box. Their BC friendly form factor makes them somewhat inflexible and difficult to load with.

On the GS .338, I was told it was going to be 270 or 275 gr... we might be talking about different bullets.

LTLR, you might take a look at the CE 275's. They are advertised with a .76 BC @ 3000 fps, which is the same as the 300 SMK, which means they can be shot at higher velocity with the same BC, which means they'll reach farther with the same effectiveness. They do need a 9 twist. You could probably get them going real good out of a 338-378.
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  #17  
Old 04-21-2011, 04:18 PM
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Re: 338 Edge bullet for elk

Thanks again, I could get the 275 out the barrel at 3150 fps pretty easy I think but all my barrels are 1-10. I would try some in it though just to see. I want to get some 177's for my 300 RUM. I only had a few given to me and sure looked promising. I made some long kills with it this year with the 208 amax but I keep those to deer and antelope. The 177 would be the long range elk bullet. I agree with you it would outperform the 338-300 RUM with a 300 grainer on long range elk. 3500's with .6's is hard to beat by about anything.

Certain calibers can give you a distict advantage in long range hunting. With current available bullets 264, 30 and 338 calibers can give a guy that advantage. These three calibers have cartridges that can drive high BC hunting bullets extremely fast before you get into severe barrel burners. For instance in 7mm when you get a cartridge fast enough with a hunting bullet that competes with the best 264, 30 and 338 it is a super barrel burner. For example, I know of nothing that can drive a 168 berger 3500 fps that wil not destroy a barrel quickly. And then you still have a berger which is not a premium hunting bullet. In 264 I can drive a 130 scirroco near 3600 fps (.571bc) and we just discussed the 300 RUM at 3500 fps and 338-378 wby at 3450 fps with high bc premium hunting bullets. Just nothing in the other calibers that can do this unless you get into a super barrel burner.

The 375 is quickly joining class with the 264, 30 and 338. Top 375 bullets are coming out that make a 378 wby a super long range rifle. I was shooting mine with the 350 SMK and only my top 338's pushing 300's near 3100 fps could hang with it. I was putting kill shots through an elk cut out at 1500 yards with it while retaining incredible energy. I hope to take a cow at a mile with it this winter.
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  #18  
Old 04-21-2011, 05:16 PM
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Re: 338 Edge bullet for elk

Long time, and Montana,

we have shot the 177's out of two ultra's so far, and definatley on the lands seems to be the ticket, i couldn;t be any closer than 0.080 on one gun so i am having .125 taken off barrel. i also shot 104 grains of retumbo on the 177 and it was to much powder in case. it was compressed to say the least. didn't have much pressure sign.
Changed to the H1000. After talking to Anthony at GS who is Gherards son-inlaw, i called Gherard back in november and requested a long nose HV 338 bullet with a bc around .75-.8, he said they would start working on it. he felt to get that high of BC it will require a 1 in 9 twist, he also thought it would be in the 250-260 grain range. ususally 15-18% less weight than similar bc types. these bullets will be magic if they open and i can get them to shoot .5 moa out of my rifles. off the lands everything was an inch, the other gun is shooting .6 on the lands. last year we shot 6 great bucks in colorado, and on our way home to arizona i decided that the best long range bullet would be a combination of a berger or jlk on the front 60% and then a H bar section like the partion to retain 40% on the rear. Is there a bullet that does this? if not someone should build it, to me it would be the shangra la of long range hunting.
spanker
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  #19  
Old 04-21-2011, 06:43 PM
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Re: 338 Edge bullet for elk

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Time Long Ranger View Post
Thanks again, I could get the 275 out the barrel at 3150 fps pretty easy I think but all my barrels are 1-10. I would try some in it though just to see. I want to get some 177's for my 300 RUM. I only had a few given to me and sure looked promising. I made some long kills with it this year with the 208 amax but I keep those to deer and antelope. The 177 would be the long range elk bullet. I agree with you it would outperform the 338-300 RUM with a 300 grainer on long range elk. 3500's with .6's is hard to beat by about anything.

Certain calibers can give you a distict advantage in long range hunting. With current available bullets 264, 30 and 338 calibers can give a guy that advantage. These three calibers have cartridges that can drive high BC hunting bullets extremely fast before you get into severe barrel burners. For instance in 7mm when you get a cartridge fast enough with a hunting bullet that competes with the best 264, 30 and 338 it is a super barrel burner. For example, I know of nothing that can drive a 168 berger 3500 fps that wil not destroy a barrel quickly. And then you still have a berger which is not a premium hunting bullet. In 264 I can drive a 130 scirroco near 3600 fps (.571bc) and we just discussed the 300 RUM at 3500 fps and 338-378 wby at 3450 fps with high bc premium hunting bullets. Just nothing in the other calibers that can do this unless you get into a super barrel burner.

The 375 is quickly joining class with the 264, 30 and 338. Top 375 bullets are coming out that make a 378 wby a super long range rifle. I was shooting mine with the 350 SMK and only my top 338's pushing 300's near 3100 fps could hang with it. I was putting kill shots through an elk cut out at 1500 yards with it while retaining incredible energy. I hope to take a cow at a mile with it this winter.
You might get those 275's working in a 10 twist if you got them going fast enough. You might want to check with Dan at CE first. He is extremely helpful.

here's a couple of reads on them...

Cutting Edge Bullets terminal performance

Cutting Edge Bullets

Here's a read on the CE 375 cal bullets. They look impressive as well. Right now they only have the 320's advertised but they have have sent out some heavier one for testing that need a very tight twist.

Cutting Edge 375 Bullets

Cutting Edge Bullets

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 04-21-2011 at 07:02 PM.
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  #20  
Old 04-21-2011, 06:57 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: South of Canada and North of Wyoming
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Re: 338 Edge bullet for elk

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300spanker View Post
Long time, and Montana,

we have shot the 177's out of two ultra's so far, and definatley on the lands seems to be the ticket, i couldn;t be any closer than 0.080 on one gun so i am having .125 taken off barrel. i also shot 104 grains of retumbo on the 177 and it was to much powder in case. it was compressed to say the least. didn't have much pressure sign.
Changed to the H1000. After talking to Anthony at GS who is Gherards son-inlaw, i called Gherard back in november and requested a long nose HV 338 bullet with a bc around .75-.8, he said they would start working on it. he felt to get that high of BC it will require a 1 in 9 twist, he also thought it would be in the 250-260 grain range. ususally 15-18% less weight than similar bc types. these bullets will be magic if they open and i can get them to shoot .5 moa out of my rifles. off the lands everything was an inch, the other gun is shooting .6 on the lands. last year we shot 6 great bucks in colorado, and on our way home to arizona i decided that the best long range bullet would be a combination of a berger or jlk on the front 60% and then a H bar section like the partion to retain 40% on the rear. Is there a bullet that does this? if not someone should build it, to me it would be the shangra la of long range hunting.
spanker
Yup, I also talked to Anthony a few times and he's the one who told me 270-275 on 2 occasions while we were talking about other stuff as well. Off the top of my head, a high BC 275 gr monometal would have to be quite long requiring a very tight twist.

What brand barrels and type of twists are you using in your 300's? I've got a Broughton 5C at the smith waiting for other parts. I'm going to throat it to .120 because that's what I need for the CE bullets.

Your idea of the perfect bullet sounds pretty good. The advantage of the monometals with driving bands (not the Barnes bullets) is that you can get higher velocities with equal BC bullets. e.g. Berger 210, .64, 3150 vs GS 177, .62, 3550. Really no contest if you can get them to shoot.

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 04-21-2011 at 07:07 PM.
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  #21  
Old 04-21-2011, 08:15 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 51
Re: 338 Edge bullet for elk

Shooting 28 inch shilens with 1in9 twists, originally built for 240 matchking, but when i had one not open on a buck at 650 yards without expanding i started looking elsewhere. when i saw the GS posting by LTLR back in nov. i looked into the 177 because i have the right twist. i know i can push the bullet at 3600 with my H1000 load, i just have to be patient until i get my gun back. i am also adding a wyatt extended box, however, i still won't beable to fit in magazine box. my calculations show my OAL will be 3.93 which will have two drive bands covered in neck with touching lands. we shot 6 great bucks with the JLK 210 long boattail version in colorado this year BC of .680, this bullet performs great. i will be shooting coyotes and dead cows (cattle) out here on a ranch in may, so i should have some real life performance on game soon. i am also going to test the Henson aluminum tip 210. maybe nosler could combine a ballistic tip, with a partition backend and boattail. you mention 177 has bc of .62, i thought it is .64, should i try 4831SC for the 177, which is a little faster than the H1000???
spanker
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