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338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

 
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  #15  
Old 01-19-2012, 08:35 PM
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Re: 338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

My vote goes for either the 338RUM or 338Edge. Whatever the 7mm or 300 can do, the 338's can do better except for trajectory. Who cares? LRF's solve that problem. With the up and coming 300 grain ACCUBOND, the big 338's are now in a whole new class. The Bergers are OK and the SMK are OK for hunting but the 300 grain ACCUBONDS will be stellar for hunting. The best you can do in an ACCUBOND for the 300 is 200 grains which sports a so-so BC. It is a good combo but the 338/300 grain AB will be a grand slam in all catagories. This and with better barrel life. The real downside here is recoil, which can be managed. You will also get higher velocities with the 338 versus the 7mm or 300 when using equal bullet weights and barrel lengths. Meaning, you can use a shorter barrel and still beat the 7's and 300's.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2012, 03:17 AM
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Re: 338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

Lots of good advice already posted....I'll contribute my 2 cents...

The 300 grain NAB does hold great promise....but it will be interesting to see the final "real world" BC lives up to the .7 numbers in the 2012 catalog.

Instead of looking at drop, I would recommend you look at your whole "long range system" (i.e. your laser, your capabilities as a shooter, condition reader, and reloader, your observation/shooting optic(s)) and do an honest assessment on what your maximum range will be when actually shooting at game.

Having a 1200 yd capable rifle, will be misplaced in a system that all the other supporting items are limited to say 500-700 yds....or vice versa as well. Consideration of future “growth” should be done as well…..it’s hard to have the whole package at once for sure. But just be sure to be honest with yourself on your whole system, and how much time/money/effort you are going to be able to apply to the science/art of your goals of Long Range Hunting.

Once you determine that range, using your favorite ballistic calculator (JBM ballistics, Gseven, etc) look at wind drift at a 7 mph wind value for that range comparing the respective calibers you are considering. When contemplating the MV potential of these calibers, be sure to consider the temperature sensitivity/tolerance of the class of powder. I.E. 7mm Benford Laser magnum might be able to push a 200 gr Wildcat bullet at 3400 fps, but with what powder?? If it's a temp sensitive one, you'll be evaluating that caliber's potential on a powder you'll likely never use with LRH.

Once you see the wind drift potential of the calibers you're evaluating, look at down range energy numbers of the respective rounds. Evaluate those numbers against the game you'll be shooting at those ranges, to ensure you'll have sufficient power to do what you want to do.

Barrel life advantage will sway to the larger calibers, but heavier bullets push the rifle a bit harder at the shooter as well.

Quality and toughness of available brass should be a consideration, as well as dies that make producing very concentric ammunition relatively easy (i.e. Redding Competition Seater, Type S bushing sizing dies), as straight uniform ammunition will be needed to see the full potential of the rifle.

Selection of high BC bullets in that caliber should be considered, and evaluated during your wind drift comparison of the different calibers. It would be disappointing to build that 7mm Benford Laser magnum, only to find out the high BC 200 gr bullet didn't shoot very well in your particular barrel, and you ended up having to use a much lower BC bullet to obtain the precision you were after....and ended up with less barrel life/exterior ballistic performance than you were after. Or when/if a run is made on reloading components occurs again, and your magic bullet is no longer available. One bullet guns are just that...one bullet guns. Something to consider.

Last but not least, it's just my humble opinion...but as a rough rule of thumb I like LR rifles to weight 1 to 1.2 lbs for every hundred yards of intended max range. I.E. a 1200 yard rifle capable of cold bore sub 1 MOA shots from a field shooting position rifle is probably going to end up weighing 12-14 lbs min after it's all said and done with barrel contour, optics, adj cheekpiece, brake, etc.

That weight rule of thumb, may help determine the caliber for you, as some don't like a 9 lb 338 mag, and some think a 14 lb 7mm mag isn't for them as well.

That weight rule is just my opinion though. I've read about lots of folks shooting 1 MOA at a mile with 8 lb rifles.....not at that level myself.

Good luck, and good shooting!

Edit-There's a reason the 338 Lapua, Edge, and RUM are very popular....they are like the Chevy small block, or 5.9 Cummins....proven platforms, with recipes for success that have been proven time and time again.

Last edited by Autorotate; 01-22-2012 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Proven combos comment...
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2012, 02:54 PM
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Re: 338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

Auto,

That was an awesome post. Thanks for your point of view.

I like you are wondering how accurate the 300 ACCUBOND's BC is. That said, with the sheer sectional density and momentum a 300 grain pill will have, I feel it will lend itself to a stellar BC. At least for a real hunting bullet. .720 or lower, it will be better than anything else the major hunting bullet companies have to offer for a hunting bullet. The velocity to go with it may be another story....
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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  #18  
Old 01-22-2012, 03:50 PM
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Re: 338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

Well, I just saw this and started to say about the same thing autorotate did. I am glad I read it first.

I will add a little though to the first thing you said which struck me and obviously comes from a lot of internet hype and not actual performance. The 338 Edge you called it, goes by a ton of names of which 338-300 RUM is correct, does not blow everything away. In fact it doesn't blow anything away. It is actually on the low end of the big 338's and is an introductory cartridge for guys just getting into long range and wanting to do it on a budget since it will fit on a standard magnum action and can be done easily and cheaply. That is why I spent so much time developing the cartridge out of my shop in 1998 when we got the specs on the 300 RUM to be released soon. It beat the 340 wby by about 125 fps on a standard magnum action which was impressive in 1998. I quit doing the cartridge in 2001 with the introduction of the 338 RUM which does the same thing in a factory cartridge.

Now, with all that said it doesn't mean that it is not a good cartridge because it is excellent and I still use the 338 RUM on occasion. Both the 338-300 and 338 RUM's are excellent in 27" length barrels because being on the low end of big 338's it doesn't burn as much powder and will work well with faster powders like H-1000 where the big 338's are better with super slow burners and barrel length. You actually will gain very little with a longer barrel, maybe 15-20 fps per inch. Not worth it because if you want a long barrel and more performance then get it in a cartridge that will blow the RUM's away. The 338-300 and 338 RUM's actually use the same accuracy loads of 91-93 grains of the old lot H-1000 with the 300 grain bullet.

Every year new products come out that add performance within the best capable range of various cartridges. I use my RUM's and lapuas to 1000 yard shooting because if I am shooting further I use a big 338 for better performance. Within that 1000 yard range these 338's have better performance with some of the new lighter high bc bullets. They provide the same moa in windage but shoot much flatter with far less recoil in light 1000 yard rifles like you are looking at building. A 300 grainer out of a 26" barrel will knock the living crap out of you even with a brake. With 27" barrel velocities compare the 300 grainer at 2750 fps vs say a 225 grain cutting edge bullet .64 bc at 3200 fps to 1000 yards. These are my actual velocities with my personal rifles in 26". Like autorotate said, shoot equipment designed to perform best overall considering all parameters at the range you primarily intend to shoot.

But like Autorotate said what you need to do is evaluate all the parameters of exactly what you want to do considering expense of all the support equipment to go serious long range. If you want to go serious long range then get a cartridge designed for the purpose. If you want to stay within the limitations of most affordable rangefinders and need a 1000 yard rifle then there are several like either of the 338 RUM's that will do a good job for you. I would suggest at least a 30 caliber or larger. To get good with it means quite a bit of shooting so I would recomend a 338 caliber for better barrel life and the 338 Lapua's and RUM's are excellent on barrels for the performance you get. You can go to the Lazzeroni, 338-378 wby, Excalibur, etc and get more performance within that range at the expense of dollars and barrel wear. Big 338's I know pretty well having worked quite a bit with most common cases out there since before or shortly after they were released. Necking the 378 wby case I was about ten years late on because I was a kid and couldn't afford an action to build it on.
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2012, 09:20 PM
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Re: 338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

I'll keep it short. Build an edge and don't look back (inherintly accurate and easy to load for).

My 28" brux w/300smk's is getting 2740fps w/90gr of h1000 (moderate load but very consistent).

My buddies 30" Hart is getting 2820fps with the same load.

Good luck!

RH
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  #20  
Old 01-22-2012, 11:44 PM
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Re: 338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

Roadhunter, your 338 edge at 2740 fps will kill anything you ever hunt with it as far as you can hit it. When you have a cartridge that capable there is no need to blow the primer pockets out for every fps you can get. Accuracy is the key like you said. Your brass and barrel will last a very long time loaded to those specs.
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  #21  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:56 AM
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Re: 338 edge, 300 rum, 7 rum

LTLR,

I agree there are more potent 338's or that some of the smaller ones are close. The awesome thing about the 338 Edge is that there is a very caliber specfic load that works over a WIDE variety of guns. 90-H1000 +/- is a sure bet. IMHO, if your 338 Edge wont shoot 90 grains of H1000 under the 300's, the gun is screwed up. I saved ALOT of load deveopment by taking everybody's advice and ran 88-92 grains. 89.2 under the 300's is my best load. SMK, Hybrid or Scenar, doesn't matter. Internet hype? Maybe. But the Edge works and works well. I can imagine lots of wasted powder and bullets with a 340 or 338-378 etc....while trying to find that perfect load. Run 89-91 in an Edge and you have an amazing performer.

Just my view/$.02

M
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (how bad your last shot was, how big the group is going to be, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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