Pop, how many "hunting" bullets are available in .338 cal, 300 grains, with a BC around .8? I'd say if you're trying to kill an elk at 900 yds a bullet with a lower BC that will drift farther in the wind giving you less sure shot placement and won't retain as much energy is the bullet that's "substandard" by comparison.
"Little Matchking" that won't penetrate a shoulder? You're simply wrong about that when speaking of these big heavies. Your arguement holds a little more water in the lighter weights but nobody advocates shooting through shoulders with those, just like they don't with Ballistic Tips.
Just a few days ago I did yet another penetration test with the 240 SMK against the 180 TSX, 180 Scirocco, 200 AB and an 8mm 200 Partition.
You want to know which one easily penetrated the farthest? AND blew the biggest hole? Here's a hint--it was the only one that didn't have a nice, pretty mushroom upon recovery. A pretty recovered bullet doesn't kill. A big wound channel does.
It's pretty clear you haven't a clue what you're talking about. Actually load some up and shoot something.
I have never used a SMK to hunt with but have wittnessed their use, htis past October I saw several Antelope taken out to as far as 550 yards calibers ranged from a 223 wssm with 90 SMK, to a 300wsm with 178 SMK all were one shot kills bang flop.As most of know from my post I am shooting the TXS 180 in my 300 win this bullet has proven to be as accurate or more so in my rifle as 180 AccuBonds or 190 SMK I am planning on trying some 190, 210 grain Wildcats soon in my 300 win and 280 wildcats in my 338 RUM and possiable 300 SMK's in my 338 RUM.From what I saw the SMK may accuraly perform better than the Siera game kings
range it,check the wind, dial in correction, aim and only one shot
The only problem I can see with SMK's is if they hit only soft tissue at extended ranges when the bullet has slowed down, in turn long range chuckin or pdoging. Problem here is what doesnt do about the same thing. The only bullet I have seen do any decent expansion at long range was the 105 AMax out of a 243 win. Admitidly I Have not tried them all but I would imagine the vast majority of bullets wouldnt open up or mushroom much past 1300yds or so out of a standard varmint type caliber.
On big game, deer and such, I would think that most SMK's would do just fine as long as they still had a decent amount of velocity going for them. I can see some people having problems with them "zipping" right through a pdog or chuck at 1200yds or so, excpecially out of a smaller calibers.
take it easy
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I am new to the forums and figured this was as good a place as any to say hi. I have only been into the longrange varminting/paper punching scene for maybe 5 years now. Up here in New York we don't have a many big game shots much beyond 50-200 yards in most realistic hunting situations in the Northern Tier but since the Southern Tier is now allowed to use the rifle I have spend alot of time researching this forum and others trying to get some good information. Like anyone infected with the accuracy bug I spend alot of time trying to get some opinions about what works and what doesn't. This forum seems like a really good repository of very valuble experience. I guess I just wanted to put forth my own comments from my limited experience and maybe ask a question or two if I could without hijacking the thread.
My comments regarding the bullet chart POP posted: The matchking definately appears to break apart in the medium. Whether the medium used in this experiment is appropriate for simulation of game animal tissue can be debated but it still seems to me that the matchking construction is unlike any of the other test bullets: no other bullet exhibits the matchking behavior. However whats more interesting is the penetration. I have yet to see anyone mention it but despite the SMK appearing totally fragment it still yields an average penetration depth equal to other bullets propelled at that velocity. Strange for a bullet that looks like it is breaking apart on impact to come anywhere close to the depths indicated. I can only surmise that the fragmentation of the SMK only occurs AFTER the bullet has passed signifcantly in the medium and then breaks down once it has decelerated. If thats the case, and I am getting a solid 15-19 inches of penetration before that baby fragments what you should have is a bullet that pierces the hide then fragments once its in soft tissue. And from some of the photos I have seen posted on these forums, thats exactly what seems to happen when everything works out right. I would be very intrested to see the medium used for testing cross-sectioned so we can get a better 3 dimensional picture as to whats going on.
Another comment I wanted to make was comparing the 30 caliber SMK to larger caliber SMK. From what I have seen and read in the forums there are few who question the .338" diameter and up. Most of what I would consider the insanity pictures (you know the ones where the deer have a whole in their side big enough to toss a cat thru it) were all shot with a 338 or larger bullet. Seems like this topic really flares up when anyone using a 30 caliber or smaller. I was curious, does anyone have the internal matchking dimensions? I was just curious as to wall thickness, hollowpoint cavity, etc. If there is a real proportional difference between the various calibers.
Another point regarding this picture POP posted: Check out *reliable* expansion on most of these bullets. Looks like around 1200-1000 ft/lbs of energy most bullets cease to expand reliably, most stop expanding at all. Does this not negate the real *advantage* to using a hunting bullet versus a match bullet, especially considering in this forum we are talking about hunting at such long ranges? Seeing the Remington Core-Lokt stops expanding at 500 yards why would I opt to use it when I can get an SMK with what I would consider to be superior consitency and long range aerodynamic performance? In my very humble experience long range shooting its my belief that the hardest challenge is actually connecting with your target.
Just my 2 cents: Load a Sierra 175 SMK and a Sierra 180 RN. Keep both in your pocket. Point of impact should be the same or at least close enough so if your zero at 200 yards with the SMK your damn close enough with the RN it wont matter. If your taking a stroll thru the thick pines load a RN in the chamber. You see that big buck out at the edge of the hedgerow when you exit, swap cartridges. And don't hand me that crap you dont have enough time. If you have time to set up a 600 yard shot, you have time to swap the cartridge. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]