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308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

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Unread 01-03-2005, 04:50 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,787
Re: 308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

Slack does compete @ 1k. And Steve Hugel (sscoyote-username) did write the article and is my hunting buddy. It may sound impossible, but that doesn't mean it is. I would encourage you to read the articles.
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Unread 01-03-2005, 07:39 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: La Grange, TX
Posts: 222
Re: 308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

FWIW I've had some super long pokes at coyotes with my M1A and 180 Sierras. Now its tough to shoot around 1400 yards or so but my cousin has plowed open fields. Let me just say I've shot a bunch and killed nothing and have no paper proof. But once you had elevation, it would hold that well enough, about 2 times as tall as a coyote. Now as to the wind factors.... well that was really tough. Closest I've ever been was right between the legs once.

I suspect that most folks assume that once the bullet goes subsonic its toast. Though I have no testing I feel that there is a zone of distance, like from X to Y yards that its bad, and after that it will be fine again.

Phooey on those that have to have proof on everything thats ever been done. Do it how you want to. Shawn thats not directly at you but I'm sick of folks proclaiming that because they have not done it or can't do it to prove it to them. Too many doubting thomas's around.

I've made some shots in front of some hunters from FL that I suspect they are called liars each time they tell it. But I did it and don't care what others think.

Thank you for allowing my occasional soapbox time. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Get as close as you can, but utilize your skills as needed.
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Unread 01-03-2005, 09:12 PM
Posts: n/a
Re: 308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

The 3125yd shot that Kregg Slack made was with a 338Lapua , he has pis posted on his web page and that gong is a lot bigger than 16"
How fast would a 220gr Match King be going at 3000yds anyway? supposing that it was launched at maybe 2500 fps?
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Unread 01-03-2005, 09:30 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: on the rifle range in Utah
Posts: 2,704
Re: 308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

Rost 495,
I believe Mr. Slack would have a chance with his .264 mag, but you said yourself that it is hard to connect at 1400 yard with your 308. Now double your range and and a few more yards and that is how far he is shooting? If that bullet is getting there, it is traveling at about 660 fps says my Infinity program. Thats almost half the velocity of a 22 lr!
Maybe there is something to that turbulent zone you talked about, but that would be hard to swallow also. I would think that once a bullet induces yaw to itself during the transonic/subsonic period, that it would veer of course far enough to never re-gain any accuracy. I know that my 22-250 Improved fast twist is wonderfully accurate at 1200 yards, but after that it goes into transonic state and actually induces so much yaw that it heats up from air friction and disintegrates before it gets to 1400 yards! So it's turbulent zone makes it terribly inaccurate! Anything out there farther than 1400 yards can live without fear of getting shot by that gun!
Just a side note, my gunsmith used to live in Woodland Park, Colorado. This is not too far from where those two fellows live. Supposedly they have an open invitation to come witness their shooting. Well, my gunsmith called and called and called to set up a time to shoot with them and they never returned his calls. He even went to their shop to find them and was told they were gone. They had no reason to run from him, he was going there with an un-biased view. He just wanted to see it and they acted like they didn't want to show him. Just kinda weird. Like I said, I might have to eat crow, but there is just something fishy going on here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
And yeah, I might be skeptical, but it keeps me from being gullible! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Find it
Range it
Click it
Pull it
Dump it

If it's not far, it's boring.
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Unread 01-04-2005, 08:59 AM
JBM JBM is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 113
Re: 308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

I keep seeing articles about these very, very long shots. As much as I'd like to be able to believe, it seems to me that most of them use quite a bit of ammunition to hit the target.

In the article "Trials and Tribulations of Making the Long Shot" (at, there is this little tidbit:

It took five trips to Montana, 1,000 rounds of ammo, and Kenís excellent spotting and coaching before I finally got the job done, shooting a dog at 2,110 yards.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I read that right, he shot over 1000 times before he hit the target at greater than 2000 yards. I may be labeled as a heretic for saying this, but I don't think that's accuracy -- it's perseverance.

Just for the fun of it, I simulated a group of 28 feet and 1000 rounds. [I had to simulate it, I've never shot this far. And for you math types, it is normally distributed with sigma of 8. I'm using a normal distribution as an example. I don't know how much of an approximation this is.] This comes out to an accuracy of 16 MOA [somebody check my math to make sure]. Sure enough there is a shot close to the center. You can see the group here:

We see some nice groups posted here, but I've not seen one at 2000 yards yet -- any takers?

JBM Small Arms Ballistics --
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Unread 01-04-2005, 09:02 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: La Grange, TX
Posts: 222
Re: 308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

Goodgrouper: Anything is possible at all. You might eat crow, I might, you never know. Hell its better than starving of ignorance right?

Heres another thought. I should add that often times I"m neither pro or con on subjects but like to interject how it could be done. Whether it can or not is often yet to be proven. A fence sitter with some input if you will.

Anyway there is a sport called mini palma. Folks use 22 LR at 100,150,200 yards. And they shoot some fairly small groups and decent scores. It really makes you work to dope the wind at 200 for a 22lr bullet. It well represents the difficulties encountered in real 1000 yard wind matches.

Now I dont' have access to calculate remaining speed, but bet the 22 bullet is also at 600 fps or less. They are not aerodynamic for sure. And they often start between 1000 and 1100 fps only.

I should add that I was mentioning my iron sight M1A. Definitely not a super tack driver and iron sights against game are much tougher than against a visible paper target. So even though it was tough for me, things would have been significantly easier (closer??) with a scoped 308 bolt gun off a bipod or backpack. Not saying that would have made the shot for sure though.

I'm interested in why your bullet would go so crazy as to blow up at past 1400 yards. The only ones I"ve seen go puff are up at the muzzle. Though I have read of ones disentegrating at between 900 and 1000 as they go subsonic. Just can't recall the reasoning. Took lots of sheets on the ground and testing to confirm.

Food for thought.
Get as close as you can, but utilize your skills as needed.
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Unread 01-04-2005, 11:24 AM
Gold Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northamptonshire England
Posts: 676
Re: 308 A.I. at almost 2 miles?

I'm with Shawn C on this, buy the book "Precision Shooting at 1000 yards", apart from the mentioned article(to which a whole chapter is devoted) its a fantastic read. I was a non-believer at first but i'm converted [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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