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300 Tomahawk

 
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  #1  
Old 11-18-2005, 11:23 AM
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300 Tomahawk

The time is almost near and I'm scratching my head. I dont know if I can afford to shoot an Allen Mag with the wildcat bullets regularly enough to practice and become proficient with it. I like to shoot around 100 rounds week out of my rifles. Anyways, I was talking to a friend and telling him about the big 7mm AM with the 200g at around 3250fps. He said, well doesn't your 300 RUM shoot 3200fps with a 200g bullet? I said it sure does, with 95g Retumbo &200g AB it shoots 3225fps and gave a 3 inch group at 525 yards. He said whats the real advantage then? I told him the BC of the bullet on the 7mm is way higher and thats what counts. However, I was thinking that since you can already achieve 3225fps out of a 26" bbl, If I got say a 28"or 30" and improved the RUM to a Tomahawk version, would it be likely to gain another 200fps?? I was thinking somewhere in the ballpark of at least 3400fps with a 200g bullet. Now those ballistics aren't so far behind the big Allen Mag, except for the wind. Just curious if this is logical thinking since the improved version should at least 100fps maybe 150fps, plus the added barrel length of 2-4 inches should give at least another 100fps. About how fast could I expect to shoot the big 240g SMK?? I was thinking hopefully 3100fps.
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2005, 04:01 PM
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Re: 300 Tomahawk

Stray thoughts

The only way to save barrel money is to start shooting a 22 rifle a lot. 100 rds a week is going to burn up any magnum barrel in a year or less and a 300 Rum is no exception. Shooting mechanics and practice are best perfected at low recoil. If you just got to make a lot of noise then remember the guy that killed the prairie dog at 600+ with a 22 hornet. That guy knows how to shoot and shoot well. No great feat to kill the critter with some light speed magnum at that range but true skill needed for the little hornet. A 22 hornet makes some noise and is easy on barrels For me no great skill needed with a 17 Remington until you get beyond 300 yds at which time I start to sweat. I really like it as a fun to shoot gun. Other calibers would be a 223, and some of the benchrest type calibers.

A 300 Tomahawk will burn up a barrel in a hurry, you are not saving any money. You are going to need a new chamber and throat every six months at 100 rds a week.
A 300 Tomahawk is about a 100 fps slower than a 30-378. The 240 SMK is the bullet of choice with a BC of 0.711. That is about the only way you can out shoot the 7AM with the 200 WC without going to the 338s. Not every gunsmith has a 300 tomahawk reamer although some very good ones do. It will cost you the same as the 7AM to get a chamber cut. I donít know what Kirby charges on dies nor do I know if the tomahawk has any commercially available dies but that is a small cost in the total.

I am not the expert on this but am trying to learn more about setting a barrel back. Once a gunsmith has a reamer then it is much cheaper for him to chamber a barrel. Once you have a barrel you no longer need to pay for a new barrel Ė just the reaming of the chamber and the rethreading of the barrel shank. (plus I guess you would spend $15 to have the crown freshened up) I say again I am not a gunsmith but am trying to learn about this because I do not want to be spending a truck load of money every year on a whole new barrel. There is something about the amount of barrel shank needed per setback that I do not have a good handle on. How much extra barrel length does one need per setback and how many times can you set back a barrel?

A 7 twist 7mm barrel cost the same as a 10 twist 30 cal barrel. Wildcat bullets are not expensive bullets\comparatively speaking. Accuracizing the action is the same no matter what chamber it is screwed onto and that is only once per action.

First and foremost I recommend you spend more time shooting small caliber rifles for practice and shoot the over bore magnums much less.
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2005, 09:02 PM
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Re: 300 Tomahawk

The 300 Tomahawk is really Darryl Cassel's baby. He can give you all the info you need on it. he dosen't frequent this forum anymore, but if you post it over at PLRH he is around there.
The one I got to play with for a very short time would do a 240 SMK at 3208 fps from a 30" Hart.

While I agree with many of buffalobob's points, I think he is being a bit pessimistic on barrel life... as long as that 100rds a week isnt in a single session that is. Again, DC can answer your questions... I think he has 3 if memory serves.
I too was thinking about a 300tomahawk for a while, but the more ive investigated it, Im thiking about going a little smaller. Compare the 7stw with the 176gr cantacaro bullet ( MEASURED) BC of .750 to the 300tomahawk with the 240's .711. Much less recoil too, though it may not be quite the ticket for 100rds a week either.
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Old 11-19-2005, 12:05 AM
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Re: 300 Tomahawk

I wont shoot the big boomer 100 times a week. Probly more like 100 times a month I would be happy. Probly not even that. I like to shoot my other calibers, 220 swift and my 25-06 around 50 shots each week out of each rifle. Those are where I get my practice in. I still shoot my fair share of shots a month out of my 300 RUM. I was mainly concerned about the extra added velocity was all by going to a 28" and improving it.

I am still totally out for anything. I punch numbers quite often just to keep me thinking. I cannot personally shoot more than 1000 yards accurately. Maybe with the right custom built rifle, that will not be out of the question. I want this gun for Longer range 600-1000 for deer, black bear, and elk. I wanted to kinda stick with .30 cal, but was open to 7mm, as well as maybe 338. There is just soooooo many more bullets to choose from in 30 cal. Also, the frontal diameter keeps me thinking I should not go any lower than 30 cal for 1000 yard shots. How would the 176g cauterucio do in say a 7 RUM improved with a 28" bbl?? That would be interesting. Pretty much, I want the most inherently accurate cartridge, that will put the smack down on an elk or bear at 1000 yards. Different days, bring different thoughts.
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Old 11-19-2005, 05:23 AM
daveosok
 
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Re: 300 Tomahawk

I have the 7mm Tomahawk reamer here and am going to build the gun her when the Krieger barrel shows up.
I had a 7mm stw and the Berger 180 grain bullets behind 74.5 grains of H1000 in a 34 inch barrel produced 3100 fps with no signs of pressure. I think this was actually a low load and I could have gotten probably 78 or so grains before pressure signs.
With the ability of this new case capacity and dropping to H50BMG I think starting out at around 90 grains and leading up to 105 grains will net 3300 or close to it possibly over it before pressure signs.
I am really interested in this new ball powder coming from Hodgdon 869 or something like that.
This new barrel is a 4 groove 1:8 twist and because of the length I think after talking to a few folks about the 200 grain pills that I should be able to stabilize them. I know the Berger's will shoot though so if the 200 doesnt work out Ive got the 180 grain covered.
I think that in the 7mm tommy I should see easily 3300 fps with the 180 and think that 3300 is very close to what the jacket can handle before deformity starts affecting accuracy.
Dave
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2005, 05:46 AM
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Re: 300 Tomahawk

I own a 300 Tomahawk, and a 30-338 Lapua, AKA 30 Wolf. The Tomahawk was designed to shoot 220 and 240 SMK bullets, it will also fire the 300 RUM factory ammo accurately in a bind.

If you are into using better brass, and a little more prep work, the 30-338 would be my choice. It will launch a 210JLK at about 3300 fps without any problems. The powder burns more efficiently, and as I mentioned the Lapua brass is much better. The Lapua brass is going to cost more but its well worth it. Usually when you load and fire these big cannons, the cost of brass isn't really too much of an issue.

Just MHO, good luck with your choice,
Frank D

PS thanks Abinok, I still haven't had the time to load up the bullets you sent me. The Holiday rush has us very busy here!
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2005, 07:13 PM
daveosok
 
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Re: 300 Tomahawk

With a 34 inch barrel behind 100 grains of H1000 we were getting 3600 fps with Berger's 190 grainers, 3300 with Berger's 210 same load, H50BMG netted 3100 fps behind 100 grains of H1000 launching the 210's.
Now that Federal has come out with 300 rum brass the scales have equaled out a bit more and still cheaper to buy brass for versus the 338 Lapua brass.
Case capacity was 115.5 grains of water to top of neck.
Fire forming load was 50 grains of H1000 and pulled military bullets 170's something. Accuracy was surprising with the fire forming load and picking either the 300 Tomahawk or the 30-338 will net you a flat hard hitting caliber.
We never tried the 240 smk the 190's accuracy was outstanding and flat and took deer at 647, 525, and 430 somehting yards.
The gun would produce 1.7 inch 10 shot groups at 500 yards. Barrel length is a must for these large capacity cases to net the maximum performance.
There is nothing wrong with either case but if you choose the 338 youll need to have the rem 700 bolt face opened up, feed rails opened up, and buy expensive brass but high quality brass.
Federal's brass is heads and toes over Remington brass only wish Norma or Lapua made 300 rum brass then youd have the cats meow.

Dave
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