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Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics



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Unread 07-04-2002, 07:48 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757


That's the problem many times.

People read someting in publications and swear it can be done or that it's true.

You can't just read about it and do it or many times even believe it.

Sort of like reading how to ride a bike when you never have. You can read all you want but, you will NEVER know how to ride it till you actually do it.

There are many years of shooting experiance on this forum by many shooters and my trust goes to the person who has done it and is still doing it to perfection.

You know who they are when they give the shooting and loading information they have experianced and that has been successful for them over the years.

Experiance in the field, at the range and at the loading bench, is the true test in this long-range shooting and hunting game.

Darryl Cassel

PS--I'll take the Tomahawk because 600 yards at a PD is NOTHING for an accurate 30 caliber especially when using the heavier bullets. I think someone has got them out to 2500 yards or further.

[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
Darryl Cassel
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  •   #9  
    Unread 07-05-2002, 12:47 PM
    Writers Guild
    Join Date: Jul 2001
    Posts: 1,459

    Yep, article in precision shooter that has two guys trying for a two mile PD. Using the heavies in 30cal and 338 but out of smaller cases.

    Their rationale was that the higher initial vel didn't really affect the time of flight or end vel much when they were shooting so far away. I think one was using a 300win mag case and the other a 338Lapua. Barrel life would certainly have been better.

    They both had some very interesting scope mounts that had enormous amounts of elevation travel. It looked like 2 to 3" of adjustment. With that type of adjustment, you could probably get away with using a 308win. it would just take a day or two to get out there. Bullet may burn up on reentry - would be a problem. many minutes is 50ft of wind drift at two miles. LOTS...

    Enjoy the long weekend guys...

    Jerry Teo
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    Unread 07-05-2002, 12:55 PM
    Bronze Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: NC
    Posts: 48

    No that was no misprint! the man's logic
    was way off.I read a article on this some
    where..i cant remember as i have read so many articles. but anyway the guy didnt have
    a chronograph so he just shot it at 300
    or 400 yards and it had the say point of
    impact as his .220 swift so he concluded
    that it was going the same speed also..
    how he knew how fast the .220 swift was
    going i have no idea.. it have been factory ammo or he was assuming it from printed
    loaded data you see it was
    no misprint that guys way off thinking was
    off.. anyway i have seen a .318 gerlach
    or something like that.. that got 4200+
    with 240 grain or 220 grain bullets..BUT!!
    The case is huge looked like to me it was
    close to a .50bmg and the barrel was
    SMOOTH bore.. accuracy wouldnt be worth a
    #&@*! and it took a 48 inch barrel to do it.
    it was supposed to penetrate tanks.. I think
    that some barrel maker should go into looking for a new steel alloy that will
    be alot tougher and stand more heat..
    and resist erosion better.. there are plenty of steel super alloys but im not
    sure which ones would work for barrel steel
    now blackstar is supposed have done that
    with their barrels they claim that they will
    last 2-3 times longer because their steel
    is 700 series i have never heard of anyone testing to see if this is true.and also their website has moved or removed the section that stated that it was
    in gunsmith tips section. they are back in bussiness now.. it could be B.S. like alot
    of things..Now i know that super alloy barrels would higher but image if they could extend the life 5x-10x+ of stainless
    steel..i know they would be alot hard to machine but there has got to be ways to do
    it. A couple of years back i called mcmillan
    guns and asked how rock mcmillans .50/20mm
    went. he told he he got 4000+fps out of a
    750 grain bullet and might would have got
    more if the barrel hadnt burnt out in 10
    shots!! sometimes he said it would last
    close to 100 shot.. he even tried a stellite
    insert and it just started melting the rifling where the 8 inch stellite insert stopped.. So he shelved the idea.. Now
    if one had a super alloy here and i mean
    to take super alloy to last.. but this thing
    would have the flatest traj. and wind bucking ability.. Nothing would come close..
    just run some numbers for a 750 grain a-max
    or 800 grain barnes at 4000 fps and take a
    look for yourself..It would be hellish loud
    because of the 600+ grains of powder burn!!
    and there will be some people who will say
    ill just get a tank or missle or 30 mm or
    whatever else.. but thats not too realistic
    as it would cost the h@LL of you and also
    the special permit required to own such equpment and the lack of good match bullets
    for the 25mm,30mm or what ever else would also hold one back..I for a fact that you dont need a special permit for a .50/20mm
    at least it wasnt 3 years ago when i checked. and as longs it says .50 and not moved up to 20mm.i checked this out because i seen a 20mm action for sale its was labeled as a .50/20mm action though.. im not sure why.. as for as calibers go there
    is no right or wrong calibers in my opinion
    as everyone is diffrent.. unless it is undergunned for the game intended.. but thats not for me to i would hunt
    ground squrriels with a .340 weatherby or
    .50bmg (if had a .50bmg) if the area permited I DONT NOT COMPRMISE the safety of others with my crazy ideas..
    Now im not saying i do this in with regularity but i will if i decide too..
    and i also listen to EVERYONES opinion
    on equipment,bullets,scopes,guns, experiences.. as this is better than any mag
    article to matter if it seems right
    or wrong.. reloading is nothing to play
    with as you could easily cause serious injury to yourself if not taking the proper
    safety precautions and working up loads the way im getting a oehler 35p
    soon also as i have had it with my cheap just hasnt been reliable in
    my experiences with it.. good luck and good
    shooting.. and maybe one day some one or
    barrel company,gun company might use a super
    alloy steel to make a long life barrel for
    a 6mm-284,or 6.5/300weatherby 1000 yard benchgun or could be used for that .50/20mm!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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    Unread 07-05-2002, 01:10 PM
    Bronze Member
    Join Date: Oct 2001
    Location: NC
    Posts: 48

    i swear i read a article that said he
    got that speed by it having the same point
    of impact as his .220 swift at 300 yards..
    now i seen that someone says that the editor
    says it was a type o.I wish i could remember
    what article that came from as if it can be
    confirmed that it was a type o. i would confront the person who wrote that..
    i didnt get it from here but look at the data from this link it doesnt seen right if that 250
    grain bullet was supposed to have been a
    150 grain bullet.. as i use 100 grains of
    imr 4350 in my .30-378 with a SHORT 26 inch
    barrel.. and it was shot though a oehler
    chrono (the oehler wasnt mine) at 3,810
    the load was slighty stickly. but i dont plan to shoot was just for fun..
    and that load of mine is FACT NO B.S and
    also the chrono was a oehler 35p and i didnt
    own it.. my el cheap chrono wouldnt even
    pick it up..i think muzzle blast was messing with it.. anyway it seems things
    just get more skewed by the min and none of
    us on the forum is doing it.. its the Publications and their editors and wherever
    they get their info from. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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    Unread 07-05-2002, 05:14 PM
    Gold Member
    Join Date: Sep 2001
    Location: North, Texas
    Posts: 612

    Hey it would be great if you could get a 250gr. to fly at 3900fps out of a 30-34" barrel. But until someone comes up with a super powder will have to settle for a TOMAHAWK.(The indians win this round) [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] .
    Courage,Spirit and Honor
    Pass It On
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    Unread 07-15-2002, 05:09 AM
    Platinum Member
    Join Date: Jun 2001
    Location: Palmer, Alaska
    Posts: 2,539

    My gunsmith has the reamer. It measures exactly what Darryls 338-416 Rigby Imp case measures with the exception that it has just a couple thou less tapor to the shoulder and necked to 30 caliber. Everthing else was identical. this is the reamer I'll use for my 338-416 Rigby Imp but with a 338 pilot and seperate throater.

    I remember when my brother was going to have one of the 30 Codys built. He was saying the same thing and it would have 8000 or something foot pounds of energy or something like that. Sounded great back then. I didn't even know what it was then, but now I know that 3500-3700 is a stretch with that length of tube. That case will not do anywhere near 4000 fps with a 250gr.

    From what I understood the Gerlach was made just to break the 5300 fps mark and break the mile per second mark. It was a .416 Gerlach in a Ruger #1 with a 118gr mono-solid named after a German anti-tank gun desighner.
    Brent Moffitt
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