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Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics



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Unread 07-04-2002, 07:48 PM
Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,757


That's the problem many times.

People read someting in publications and swear it can be done or that it's true.

You can't just read about it and do it or many times even believe it.

Sort of like reading how to ride a bike when you never have. You can read all you want but, you will NEVER know how to ride it till you actually do it.

There are many years of shooting experiance on this forum by many shooters and my trust goes to the person who has done it and is still doing it to perfection.

You know who they are when they give the shooting and loading information they have experianced and that has been successful for them over the years.

Experiance in the field, at the range and at the loading bench, is the true test in this long-range shooting and hunting game.

Darryl Cassel

PS--I'll take the Tomahawk because 600 yards at a PD is NOTHING for an accurate 30 caliber especially when using the heavier bullets. I think someone has got them out to 2500 yards or further.

[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
Darryl Cassel
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Unread 07-05-2002, 12:47 PM
Writers Guild
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,459

Yep, article in precision shooter that has two guys trying for a two mile PD. Using the heavies in 30cal and 338 but out of smaller cases.

Their rationale was that the higher initial vel didn't really affect the time of flight or end vel much when they were shooting so far away. I think one was using a 300win mag case and the other a 338Lapua. Barrel life would certainly have been better.

They both had some very interesting scope mounts that had enormous amounts of elevation travel. It looked like 2 to 3" of adjustment. With that type of adjustment, you could probably get away with using a 308win. it would just take a day or two to get out there. Bullet may burn up on reentry - would be a problem.

Ummm...how many minutes is 50ft of wind drift at two miles. LOTS...

Enjoy the long weekend guys...

Jerry Teo
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Unread 07-05-2002, 12:55 PM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 48

No that was no misprint! the man's logic
was way off.I read a article on this some
where..i cant remember as i have read so many articles. but anyway the guy didnt have
a chronograph so he just shot it at 300
or 400 yards and it had the say point of
impact as his .220 swift so he concluded
that it was going the same speed also..
how he knew how fast the .220 swift was
going i have no idea.. it have been factory ammo or he was assuming it from printed
loaded data velocities...so you see it was
no misprint that guys way off thinking was
off.. anyway i have seen a .318 gerlach
or something like that.. that got 4200+
with 240 grain or 220 grain bullets..BUT!!
The case is huge looked like to me it was
close to a .50bmg and the barrel was
SMOOTH bore.. accuracy wouldnt be worth a
#&@*! and it took a 48 inch barrel to do it.
it was supposed to penetrate tanks.. I think
that some barrel maker should go into looking for a new steel alloy that will
be alot tougher and stand more heat..
and resist erosion better.. there are plenty of steel super alloys but im not
sure which ones would work for barrel steel
now blackstar is supposed have done that
with their barrels they claim that they will
last 2-3 times longer because their steel
is 700 series stainless.now i have never heard of anyone testing to see if this is true.and also their website has moved or removed the section that stated that it was
in gunsmith tips section. they are back in bussiness now.. it could be B.S. like alot
of things..Now i know that super alloy barrels would higher but image if they could extend the life 5x-10x+ of stainless
steel..i know they would be alot hard to machine but there has got to be ways to do
it. A couple of years back i called mcmillan
guns and asked how rock mcmillans .50/20mm
went. he told he he got 4000+fps out of a
750 grain bullet and might would have got
more if the barrel hadnt burnt out in 10
shots!! sometimes he said it would last
close to 100 shot.. he even tried a stellite
insert and it just started melting the rifling where the 8 inch stellite insert stopped.. So he shelved the idea.. Now
if one had a super alloy here and i mean
to take super alloy to last.. but this thing
would have the flatest traj. and wind bucking ability.. Nothing would come close..
just run some numbers for a 750 grain a-max
or 800 grain barnes at 4000 fps and take a
look for yourself..It would be hellish loud
because of the 600+ grains of powder burn!!
and there will be some people who will say
ill just get a tank or missle or 30 mm or
whatever else.. but thats not too realistic
as it would cost the h@LL of you and also
the special permit required to own such equpment and the lack of good match bullets
for the 25mm,30mm or what ever else would also hold one back..I for a fact that you dont need a special permit for a .50/20mm
at least it wasnt 3 years ago when i checked. and as longs it says .50 and not moved up to 20mm.i checked this out because i seen a 20mm action for sale its was labeled as a .50/20mm action though.. im not sure why.. as for as calibers go there
is no right or wrong calibers in my opinion
as everyone is diffrent.. unless it is undergunned for the game intended.. but thats not for me to decide..as i would hunt
ground squrriels with a .340 weatherby or
.50bmg (if had a .50bmg) if the area permited it..as I DONT NOT COMPRMISE the safety of others with my crazy ideas..
Now im not saying i do this in with regularity but i will if i decide too..
and i also listen to EVERYONES opinion
on equipment,bullets,scopes,guns, experiences.. as this is better than any mag
article to me..no matter if it seems right
or wrong.. reloading is nothing to play
with as you could easily cause serious injury to yourself if not taking the proper
safety precautions and working up loads
safely...by the way im getting a oehler 35p
soon also as i have had it with my cheap chronograph..it just hasnt been reliable in
my experiences with it.. good luck and good
shooting.. and maybe one day some one or
barrel company,gun company might use a super
alloy steel to make a long life barrel for
a 6mm-284,or 6.5/300weatherby 1000 yard benchgun or could be used for that .50/20mm!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Unread 07-05-2002, 01:10 PM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 48

i swear i read a article that said he
got that speed by it having the same point
of impact as his .220 swift at 300 yards..
now i seen that someone says that the editor
says it was a type o.I wish i could remember
what article that came from as if it can be
confirmed that it was a type o. i would confront the person who wrote that..
i didnt get it from here but look at the data from this link http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w30cody.html it doesnt seen right if that 250
grain bullet was supposed to have been a
150 grain bullet.. as i use 100 grains of
imr 4350 in my .30-378 with a SHORT 26 inch
barrel.. and it was shot though a oehler
chrono (the oehler wasnt mine) at 3,810
the load was slighty stickly. but i dont plan to shoot it..it was just for fun..
and that load of mine is FACT NO B.S and
also the chrono was a oehler 35p and i didnt
own it.. my el cheap chrono wouldnt even
pick it up..i think muzzle blast was messing with it.. anyway it seems things
just get more skewed by the min and none of
us on the forum is doing it.. its the Publications and their editors and wherever
they get their info from. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Unread 07-05-2002, 05:14 PM
Gold Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: North, Texas
Posts: 613

Hey it would be great if you could get a 250gr. to fly at 3900fps out of a 30-34" barrel. But until someone comes up with a super powder will have to settle for a TOMAHAWK.(The indians win this round) [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] .
Courage,Spirit and Honor
Pass It On
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Unread 07-15-2002, 05:09 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539

My gunsmith has the reamer. It measures exactly what Darryls 338-416 Rigby Imp case measures with the exception that it has just a couple thou less tapor to the shoulder and necked to 30 caliber. Everthing else was identical. this is the reamer I'll use for my 338-416 Rigby Imp but with a 338 pilot and seperate throater.

I remember when my brother was going to have one of the 30 Codys built. He was saying the same thing and it would have 8000 or something foot pounds of energy or something like that. Sounded great back then. I didn't even know what it was then, but now I know that 3500-3700 is a stretch with that length of tube. That case will not do anywhere near 4000 fps with a 250gr.

From what I understood the Gerlach was made just to break the 5300 fps mark and break the mile per second mark. It was a .416 Gerlach in a Ruger #1 with a 118gr mono-solid named after a German anti-tank gun desighner.
Brent Moffitt
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