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270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

 
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2005, 08:23 PM
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Re: 270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

Coyboy,

I will be honest with you, the Weaver is pretty good as far as trackability but there are better scopes out there if you want to dial in your adjustments for every click.

This scope really comes into its own when using the Mil-Dot system on a preset drop chart as you can use the reticle over the entire power range and it stays consistant with the target.

While I fully agree that using this system is not as absolute accurate as dialing in for each shot, it is plenty accurate for big game hunting with a well tuned drop chart.

The ability to engage targets from the muzzle to 1000 yards with no scope adjuatment at all really increases your speed in the field. It also eliminates the risk of getting lost in your clicks in the field or finding yourself in a stituation where you can not engage a target fast enough to get a shot off.

For extreme range, past 1000 yards, I would say get a NF or something on those lines, for anything out to 1000 yards on big game this scope is very hard to beat.

IT is nearly perfect for shooting out to the 1/2 mile marker on big game.

Good SHooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #9  
Old 04-04-2005, 08:25 PM
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Re: 270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

Buffalobob,

The barrel is a 30" #6 Pac Nor super match. I selected this barrel simply because it was the only 1-8 twist I was aware of in .277" bore.

I have since had Lilja tool up to build 1-8 3 groove barrels for the .277" bore.

The Holland Break adds another 1.25" to the barrel length. Despite its long barrel it does balance suprisingly well.

Good SHooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #10  
Old 04-05-2005, 11:15 AM
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Re: 270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

Super shooting!! Can you give me some technical background on your cartridge? Thanks! Looks like those sheep are in trouble. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
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  #11  
Old 04-05-2005, 04:39 PM
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Re: 270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

WyoHunter,

The first prototype of the 270 Allen Mag like its smaller caliber brothers the 257 and 6.5mm are based on an extensively modified 338 RUM case with shoulder blown out to min taper and shoulder angle increased to the Allen Mag configuration.

Case capacity of these rounds based on the shorter 338 RUM case is equal to the longer RUM cases(7mm, 300, 375). In fact it is a bit more. I decided to use the 338 RUM case as the parent case because I was sick of dealing with belted cases as I could not fit the chamber as tightly as I wanted without sorting brass by belt thickness. I also wanted more horse power then the full length belted magnum could offer.

The case capacity of the 257 and 6.5mm Allen Mags proved to limit the powder in which they can use to AA8700 and WC872. No stick powders can be used in these huge cases small bore magnums because of powder bridging issues which will cause severe pressure variation.

With AA8700 and WC872 though they perform exceptionally well with bullet weights from 100 to 156 gr in the 257 and 120 to 169.5 gr in the 6.5mm.

The 270 Allen Mag proved to be easier to load for and with bullets in the 130 to 140 gr range, Retumbo and H-50 BMG and any other stick powders in these burn rates worked well.

With the heavy 169.5 gr ULD Wildcat bullets, AA8700 and WC872 are still top choices.

I tested the 338 RUM based 270 Allen Mag extensively and was impressed by its accuracy and performance being able to drive 130 gr bullets easily past 3800 fps and the huge 169.5 gr pills to 3300 fps with top loads.

I also found that this bore size when used with the slower burning powders could even accept more case capacity so I looked at the 7mm RUM case which is roughly 0.100" longer in the case body. WHat I did was simply deepen the chamber of the test rifle to accept the longer case and tested this new prototype 270 Allen Mag. Accuracy stayed the same, well under 2" at 500 yards but I gained at least a 100 fps with all bullet weights. The 130s could be driven to 3900 fps and the big 169.5 gr pills were clipping out at +3400 fps.

The best part is that a 7mm RUM case is vastly easy to form into the 270 Allen Mag compared to the 338 RUM. Also there is no annealing really needed after fireforming these brass.



This pic shows a fireformed 257 Allen Mag(left), original 270 Allen Mag prototype(center) and production 270 Allen Mag(right). You can see the increased length of the final form of the 270 Allen Mag.



This is the original 270 Allen Mag test rifle with its unfinished stock and barrel.



This is the same rifle but with the chamber opened up to the longer 7mm RUM version of the 270 Allen Mag with a Laminated wood stock much more suited to big game hunting and the rifle finished properly. Very classy looking rifle, can hardly tell its a Savage!!!



Here is a oic of the big 169.5 gr ULD RBBT Wildcat Bullets. With a b.c. of .740 they are the highest ballistically performing 270 bullet out there. They are built on a heavy tapered jacket designed for use on deer size game for big game hunting.



This certainly is not what the rifle will average but it clearly shows the potential of what this round will do even at the extremes of performance.

I do not have the loading dies for the Allen Mags yet. Redding is in the process of buiding them and they tell me I will have them by mid to late May. We will see.

If you have any other questions let me know and I will do my best to answer them on this round.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #12  
Old 04-05-2005, 05:03 PM
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Re: 270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

Do I see partial neck turning in the pics of the last two ctgs? Are your neck dimensions tighter than normal for the .277 SAMMI in say the .270WIN? What kind of neck clearance are you looking at? What about clearance for the body how tight? Why not have your reamer maker do a resize reamer for you? Cut your own dies! If you are going to campaign a new ctg.. I would think you would want to keep the control over all. Have you been using a body reamer and separate neck reamers so far for all these ctgs,? I'm tiring to understand your goals as none of these ctgs. are off the shelf why not treat them as what they really could be. Long range benchrest ctgs. used for hunting. Or as usual maybe I've got it wrong, but it sure looks to me that a lot more could be made of all this work of yours. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2005, 05:55 PM
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Re: 270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

3sixbits,

I am not sure I understand your comments, these rounds are designed specifically to provide BR accuracy at extreme range with bullets designed specifically for big game hunting. Have been all along. I have never promoted these are long range target rounds.

The take the 257, 6.5, 270 and soon the 7mm Faster, Farther and Flatter then ever before.

On the case neck question. My reamers are set up to allow no neck turning at all and to produce 0.00175" clearance on average with an unturned neck. This is for using the 338 RUM in the 257 and 6.5mm and the 7mm RUM in the 270 Allen Mag.

The rings on the necks in the pics are from using a Redding Neck Sizing Bushing that was a couple thou to small. Does not effect performance but does leave a slight mark on the case necks.

Non of my Allen Mag reamers require any case neck turning at all as again they are designed for the big game hunter not BR shooters. They only shoot like BR rifles [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!!!

The body dimensions are as tight as youcan get them to work with the variances allowed by Rem brass. They are tight bodied chambered I assure you. It took several go arounds to get these dimensions where we wanted them working with the reamer maker, Redding and myself but we have designed a very quality min spec chamber that will provide extreme accuracy, very long case life even with top end loads and still allow use in the hunting field as again these ARE big game rounds first and formost!

On the die front, The cost involved in purchasing another custom sizing die reamer is the full price of a chambering reamer or in this case +$200. Plus I would then need to purchase die blanks and then pay to have the dies properly heat treated.

I worked with Redding and their charge to develope tooling for these new rounds was less then the envestment I would need going your way, believe me I checked everything out.

Also, Redding will not list these dies and I will be selling them and having them in stock ready to ship with the rifles as well as the Wildcat Bullets used in these rounds as well. The entire package will be ready to ship, rifle, brass, bullets dies, directly from me.

You are correct these are not exactly off the shelf cartridges or rifles, they are custom rifles offered only though my shop. As such if you order a rifle all componants will be offered and available though me so in a way they are off the shelf.

Perhaps I am not understanding your comments, what more could be made from all of my work?

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #14  
Old 04-05-2005, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: 270 Allen Mag, Extreme Sporter Range test...

Thanks for the quick reply, the fog clears a little more. So the exercise was to avoid neck turning the crap Remington brass, that makes a lot of sense! I agree that you can't make a silk purse from a sou's ear, if that was your thinking? So then will the sizing dies (from REDDING) be bushed? From my end, I look for the best brass to have the reamers made from. I guess the market that you aim at will not stand for neck turning for the most part, with Remington brass it would not make much sense anyway. I guess that really answers my other question also, The sizer dies will not be bushing type as most people will feed from the magazine and light neck tension would not be practical. Thank you sir for the run down on your system, I think you are indeed on the right tract. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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