Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics

Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics Applied Ballistics


Reply

25-06AI case forming

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2013, 03:46 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 150
25-06AI case forming

I have a Tikka 25-06 that I had improved. I am getting tired of paying for bullets to use in case forming loads. I have heard of guys who use a small charge of pistol powder, fill the case with cornmeal, and top it off with a wax plug and they get very good results. My question is, what powder and how much to use to case form for this caliber? I also need the same info for the .30 Gibbs, which is a much touchier process.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-27-2013, 04:02 PM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 2,299
Re: 25-06AI case forming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old teacher View Post
I have a Tikka 25-06 that I had improved. I am getting tired of paying for bullets to use in case forming loads. I have heard of guys who use a small charge of pistol powder, fill the case with cornmeal, and top it off with a wax plug and they get very good results. My question is, what powder and how much to use to case form for this caliber? I also need the same info for the .30 Gibbs, which is a much touchier process.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
There is no need to go through all that trouble to fireform your brass to the improved version. It's simply a matter of conducting load development and fireforming at the same time. After you have developed a load that is acceptable to your accuracy standards, then confirm with once fired brass. You may want to think about annealing before you conduct your load development.
__________________

"Character is who you are when nobody is watching"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:46 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Grantsville Utah
Posts: 3,481
Re: 25-06AI case forming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Russo View Post
There is no need to go through all that trouble to fireform your brass to the improved version. It's simply a matter of conducting load development and fireforming at the same time. After you have developed a load that is acceptable to your accuracy standards, then confirm with once fired brass. You may want to think about annealing before you conduct your load development.
Joel is correct when you are talking an A.I. because they headspace ok on the neck/shoulder junction. The Gibbs is another story. I would neck the case up to .338 and then back down to .30 just enough so that the bolt closes stiffly. In that particular cartridge, I would use about 12 grains of Red Dot or equivalent of other shotgun/pistol powder. Fill to the neck with cream of wheat and plug the neck with cotton, paper, wax or ?? Use ANY primer and fire away. The shoulder will still be a little rounded but they will shoot just fine and square up on the first full load. Another tip for both the A.I. and especially the Gibbs is to use 270W brass and you will end up with a much better neck. Here is another solution for your Gibbs! Rechamber to 300 Sherman and have the same velocity with a much better designed cartridge (especially the neck)........Rich
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-28-2013, 06:37 AM
Official LRH Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 2,299
Re: 25-06AI case forming

Thanks Rich, I covered the AI, and forgot the Gibbs.
__________________

"Character is who you are when nobody is watching"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2013, 10:37 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Grantsville Utah
Posts: 3,481
Re: 25-06AI case forming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Russo View Post
Thanks Rich, I covered the AI, and forgot the Gibbs.
That's a minor thing, I'm getting to where I can barely remember to get dressed in the A.M.......Rich
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2013, 12:43 PM
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 150
Re: 25-06AI case forming

Joel and Rich: Thanks much for the info. I have fired normal 25-06 loads through my AI, but they do not group well until the case is properly formed. You can get an idea of which load will work best, but you need the case formed before you know how good your results will be. I started out using Winchester brass for the AI (don't ask me why, lol), but never got even one good case. Even if I annealed the case prior to forming, they all split in four places right on the shoulder regardless of the load. I checked with my local gunsmith and he told me to go to any other brass other than Winchester. I tried Remington and had no problems. I have since switched to either Nosler or Lapua brass for everything. I will concede that the Lapua brass is better, but I still prefer the Nosler.

Rich: the method you describe for the .30 Gibbs is exactly what I do; neck them up to .338, then run them through the Gibbs full length sizer to create the false shoulder for them to headspace on. I tried just using a Gibbs neck sizer, but for some strange reason, they will not chamber. I have compared the two cases by measurement and by comparing them side by side under a microscope and I can find no difference, so that is a mystery. I anneal all the cases before I start, and I have never split a case. I appreciate your info on the pistol powder process. I will load a few of those and see what I get. Despite its kind of goofy look, I really like the .30 Gibbs. The rifle I used is a Remington titanium that I bought on an impulse. I got it the first year they produced them and mine has a serial number in the 60's. So the first thing I did was screw it up and cut off at least half the value. I wish I could leave stuff alone. It shoots very well considering it has a barrel the size of a fat ball point pen, and, in fact, I was using it when I made the longest shot of my life...837 yards. The bullet went right through the middle of the deer's heart, and no one was more astounded than me. I could never repeat that with any of my long range rifles, and most likely would not try anyway.
Why would using 270 brass make a better case when it initially has to expand so much more than 30-06 brass, plus, despite popular belief, the 270 is not a necked down 30-06?

I will check out the 30 Sherman. I have five or six 30-06's I could play around with.

Thanks for the info on the Gibbs, but I still need a powder charge for the AI if you have it handy. Denny
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-28-2013, 01:20 PM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Grantsville Utah
Posts: 3,481
Re: 25-06AI case forming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old teacher View Post
Joel and Rich: Thanks much for the info. I have fired normal 25-06 loads through my AI, but they do not group well until the case is properly formed. You can get an idea of which load will work best, but you need the case formed before you know how good your results will be. I started out using Winchester brass for the AI (don't ask me why, lol), but never got even one good case. Even if I annealed the case prior to forming, they all split in four places right on the shoulder regardless of the load. I checked with my local gunsmith and he told me to go to any other brass other than Winchester. I tried Remington and had no problems. I have since switched to either Nosler or Lapua brass for everything. I will concede that the Lapua brass is better, but I still prefer the Nosler.

Rich: the method you describe for the .30 Gibbs is exactly what I do; neck them up to .338, then run them through the Gibbs full length sizer to create the false shoulder for them to headspace on. I tried just using a Gibbs neck sizer, but for some strange reason, they will not chamber. I have compared the two cases by measurement and by comparing them side by side under a microscope and I can find no difference, so that is a mystery. I anneal all the cases before I start, and I have never split a case. I appreciate your info on the pistol powder process. I will load a few of those and see what I get. Despite its kind of goofy look, I really like the .30 Gibbs. The rifle I used is a Remington titanium that I bought on an impulse. I got it the first year they produced them and mine has a serial number in the 60's. So the first thing I did was screw it up and cut off at least half the value. I wish I could leave stuff alone. It shoots very well considering it has a barrel the size of a fat ball point pen, and, in fact, I was using it when I made the longest shot of my life...837 yards. The bullet went right through the middle of the deer's heart, and no one was more astounded than me. I could never repeat that with any of my long range rifles, and most likely would not try anyway.
Why would using 270 brass make a better case when it initially has to expand so much more than 30-06 brass, plus, despite popular belief, the 270 is not a necked down 30-06?

I will check out the 30 Sherman. I have five or six 30-06's I could play around with.

Thanks for the info on the Gibbs, but I still need a powder charge for the AI if you have it handy. Denny
Denny.....The 270 brass is better because it is .046" longer than '06 brass! When you fire form a Gibbs, or even an A.I., you lose around .015" in length because you are swelling the body size and the brass has to move somewhere. Of course, it is ALWAYS the neck length that suffers. If you measure your brass length after firing, you will find it is far short of chamber specs. This means you are jumping the bullet accross a void between the end of the chamber (neck) before it reaches the throat. This does nothing for accuracy and can build up carbon in this "unused" neck area! I only trim my cases .005" short of chamber length for this reason, and you can easily be .020" or more short when forming a Gibbs or A.I. Using the .270 0r .280 brass will eliminate this problem. Hope this makes sense. As far as powder charge, you can use the same charge in the Gibbs as the A.I. ........rich
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
All content ©2010-2014 Long Range Hunting, LLC