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243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

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  #8  
Unread 02-03-2010, 06:55 AM
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Re: 243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

Kiwi Nate,

Well said.

Fitch
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  #9  
Unread 02-03-2010, 09:54 AM
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Re: 243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

When I was a young man there was virtually no competition when I was out deer and elk hunting. I could make my stalk to within any range I wanted. Wait for the right presentation and drop the unmolested animal on the spot using my 6mm Remington, 270 Winchester of 7 X08. Then one year the herd got spooked and ran past me at 50 yards. I hit a cow hard enough to leave bone chips on the ground using my 270 and 130 grain Remingtons. One mile later I tagged that very sick cow!

300 Magnum with 180 grain partition from then on until I grew up into the 338/375 arena. Bigger removed all doubt regarding target presentation. These days one may see one legal animal and like already stated, if the shot presentation is but a moment I would hate to be in your shoes when you did not have the tool to get the job done./

Neal
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  #10  
Unread 02-03-2010, 10:05 AM
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Re: 243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

I am a huge 243Ai fan. I do not think there is much better for small thin skinned game like deer and antelope. Under the right conditions I would not hesitate to take a whitetail to 1000 yards with my 243AI running 115 D-tacs. But, for an elk I would want a little more ummph. If your wanting to stick with a short action without the hassels of changing your bolt face maybe you could look at a .284 Win. I do agree that placement trumps bullet performance, but stuff does happen.
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  #11  
Unread 02-03-2010, 12:22 PM
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Re: 243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Nate View Post
Its fairly simple really. A fully expanded 6mm projectile will bore a .75" wound channel through the lungs of your intended game while a 180 to 200 grain 7mm/30 cal VLD will create a widely diffused wound through vitals, up to 3" in diameter. The speed of killing with the 6mm at 600 yards can be measured in minutes, the 7mm ansd .30 caliber, in seconds.

Empathy for your quarry must be paramount and in this regard, you have to ask, if you were the Elk, how would you want to die- minutes or seconds.

As for well placed shots. As you know, Its hard to talk absolutes with long range shooting when the wind is at play. Sometimes I find myself thinking, OK, this wind is hard to read so I am going to dial it but I am also going to aim for the liver and allow some drift to the forwards vitals. If the shot does infact fall too far back, I always have enough gun to get the job done cleany and quickly.

Regarding the Swedish Mauser, the caliber is 6.5mm, not 6mm. The Swedes use 140 to 156 grain bullets and it was mostly used by farmers on a limited budget. Moose usually run atleast 300 meters after being hit with this combo. During the early 1980's, those who could afford it moved into the .30-06 as the number one choice, followed by the .308 and .358 Norma Magnums. It is also rare for Moose to be taken beyond ranges of 200 yards in Sweden. Some gun writers have pushed the 6.5 versus Moose buzz out of context.

If light recoil is your game, perhaps have a look at either the .284 Winchester on a heavy platform or the .280/ .280 AI.

Hope that helps.
This is why in my first post on the subject I mentioned "this might raise a few eyebrows". Even though its "capable" of killing at 600 yards, there is a difference in that and practical and ethical. I think most would agree that the 6mm is light for elk in most circumstances........Rich
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  #12  
Unread 02-03-2010, 01:48 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: 243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Nate View Post
Its fairly simple really. A fully expanded 6mm projectile will bore a .75" wound channel through the lungs of your intended game while a 180 to 200 grain 7mm/30 cal VLD will create a widely diffused wound through vitals, up to 3" in diameter. The speed of killing with the 6mm at 600 yards can be measured in minutes, the 7mm ansd .30 caliber, in seconds.

Empathy for your quarry must be paramount and in this regard, you have to ask, if you were the Elk, how would you want to die- minutes or seconds.

As for well placed shots. As you know, Its hard to talk absolutes with long range shooting when the wind is at play. Sometimes I find myself thinking, OK, this wind is hard to read so I am going to dial it but I am also going to aim for the liver and allow some drift to the forwards vitals. If the shot does infact fall too far back, I always have enough gun to get the job done cleany and quickly.

Regarding the Swedish Mauser, the caliber is 6.5mm, not 6mm. The Swedes use 140 to 156 grain bullets and it was mostly used by farmers on a limited budget. Moose usually run atleast 300 meters after being hit with this combo. During the early 1980's, those who could afford it moved into the .30-06 as the number one choice, followed by the .308 and .358 Norma Magnums. It is also rare for Moose to be taken beyond ranges of 200 yards in Sweden. Some gun writers have pushed the 6.5 versus Moose buzz out of context.

If light recoil is your game, perhaps have a look at either the .284 Winchester on a heavy platform or the .280/ .280 AI.

Hope that helps.
Kiwi Nate:

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I certainly won't argue that elk are at the upper limits of a 243 AI. When it comes to the 243 AI, I like the notion of being very precise and surgical with my shots.

At age 54, I have watched the evolution in big game rifles over the years. It seems that many hunters have convinced themselves that the larger caliber rifles are more effective killing tools. Some even suggest that a shot with a 338 win mag that hits somewhere other than the boiler room will still drop an elk nearly DRT. I don't concur with that thinking. A miss-placed shot is a miss-placed shot; or in other words, a gut shot elk is a gut shot elk regardless of caliber. Back when I was a young man here in AZ, most elk were taken with the 30-06 or 270. Niether of these rifles are considered to be "big medicine" today; however, they killed plenty of big game then and still do now.

Again, I agree that a 243 AI is a light elk rifle. I also appreciate your recommendation on a 284. In fact, I have also been considering a 6x284 along with the 243 AI.

Take care.
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  #13  
Unread 02-03-2010, 01:57 PM
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Re: 243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

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Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
OK, I've got to say it. IMO: The .243AI is a poor choice for a 600 yard big game hunting rig. Coyotes, and ground hogs it's just fine, kill them DRT, but not big game.

If I was going to go to the trouble and expense build myself a rifle for 600 yard (max) Elk hunt, I'd build a .300 Win Mag a bit on the heavy side (10.5lb + scope) because it's the heaviest caliber rifle I can shoot well enough without a muzzle brake (I already have tinitus)..

Just musing here, because it's so much fun, I'd probably go for the .300 Win-mag throated for the 190g Berger, Stiller Predator repeater action (or if doing it on a budget I'd true up a Remington 700 long action since I can do the machine work myself), Shilen #5 or #5-1/2 contour select match stainless barrel or better, 26" finished length, Jewell HVR trigger with safety, limbsaver or kickezz recoil pad, and a good quality hunting scope with enough elevation range that I didn't need a tilted base to get to 600 yards with travel left. I'd have the rifle finish at around 10.5 to 11 lbs + scope and sling.

For other game like mule deer, antelope, whitetail (which taken together are really a completely different class of big game than elk), I'd build a .30-06Spr or a .338-06. .30-06Spr is a great cartridge for that sort of game - easy to load for, lots of bullets to choose from, reasonable recoil - no razzle dazzle, no hype, no magic required, just gets it done. I'd build essentially the same rifle as above but chambered in .30-06Spr or .338-06 with a lighter 24" barrel to come in at 9lbs including scope. I'd make sure it would chamber 150 to 180 g bullets well.

That's my opinion. Yours may vary.

Fitch
Fitch:

Thanks for the feed back. It is funny the perspective we hunters take on such subjects. Most predator hunters think a 243 AI is too much gun for coyotes and such. To each his own.

Regarding your suggestion on the 300 win mag, I already have a 30x338 my father had custom built on a pre64 M70 in 1951. He had the gun built before the 300 win mag was introduced. the 30x338 gives you a little more neck to work with and slightly out performs the 300 - otherwise they are very similar.

It has already taken several elk with 165 grain Nosler BT's. It is a tremendous rifle and will take anything I could hunt in North America. It is getting old and I was thinking about replacing it in a custom rig. While I was contemplating such a build, I got on my 243 AI jag.

As you say, it is a blast to muse on such things.

Take care.
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  #14  
Unread 02-03-2010, 02:43 PM
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Re: 243 AI Custom LRH Rig Thoughts

Hi Jeff.....have you considered a 6.5 rather than a 6mm? If you like the idea of going light but still have some thump, it is hard to beat a good 6.5. The .260 rem would be a good choice if you want to stay with the short action or you could step up to the 6.5-284 or even a 6.5WSM. Bullet choice is far superior to the 6mm. I have personally killed a lot of big game animals with a 6.5 including 25 or so bull elk out to 600 yds. with no problems. In fact, I am still shooting a 6.5 Sherman with great results! I'm not trying to talk you in to what I like but just throwing out some thoughts. Whatever you decide on, have a ball! It's all great fun isn't it........Rich
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