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.224 Vais vs. 6/284

 
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  #1  
Old 01-22-2006, 07:14 PM
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.224 Vais vs. 6/284

Howdy fella's,
I want to set up a Rock chuck rig for mid-range work.
Will be using a 28" barrell.# 5 countour for a carry gun.
The .224 Vais using a 75 grain A-Max has a BC of .430 at 3700 fps.The 6/284 using a 70 grain Ballistic tip has a BC of .310,at about the same velocity .To near the BC of the 75 grain A-Max,the 87 grain V-Max at a BC of .400 would be pretty close but with a reduced velocity of 200-300 fps?Is there a better choice between these two calibers?If it's a toss up,I'd go with the Vais because I already have the dies.Thanks for your time,Gary
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  #2  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:59 PM
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Re: .224 Vais vs. 6/284

Millerlite,

Have you actually been able to get the 75 gr A-Max over 3500 fps accurtely? Just curious as these tend to be pretty quick to come apart in flight at high velocities. Most rifles I have tested the A-Max bullets in top out around 3300 fps with their best accuracy.

This is also with Lilja 3 groove barrels though. With conventional 6 groove rifling you can often get more out of them velocity wise.

Still, the A-Max loaded to 3700 fps would be something to see if it was accurate!!

The 6-284 will easily top 3700 fps in a 28" barrel. The ones I have built are mainly on 30" pipes which will easily break 4K with top loads with this bullet. In a 28" pipe you are looking at +3850 fps potential on average from my experience with top loads. This bullet will take any velocity you can though at it so there is generally no accuracy decrease with top velocities.

Personally I would go with the 6-284 but design it for the heavier 90 to 107 gr VLD or ULD bullet designs. Velocity will drop to the 3400-3450 fps range but down range consistancy as far as windage is gererally improved.

This all depends on what you feel is medium range shooting. If your talking 500 yards, both rounds are acutally much more then you need. If your talking 1/2 mile, then I would lean toward the big 6mm. If your looking at 1000 and beyond which some do consider medium range(not me!!) then the big 6mm would be my only choice.

Ease of loading is also a consideration as the 6-284 is very easy to load for. But you have the Vias dies so that is a cost you would not have to pay for.

Personally, I would go with the big 6mm of the two choices to pick from.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2006, 09:33 PM
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Re: .224 Vais vs. 6/284

Thanks for your input Kirby.
I have a Vais set up with a 27",14 twist,using 50 NBT bullets in it,wanted a point and shoot gun for coyotes and I sure got it.I am entertaining the idea of making it a switch barrell gun with a 8 or 9 twist for the 75's or even 80 grain VLD's for 500 yard work.I can't confirm the velocity of 3700 fps, as that comes from a friend of mine.It may be a little suspect after reading your post,but he loads most everything to the limit.Perhaps it's best to keep the gun all Vais and build a full on 6/284 down the road.......What are your thoughts comparing the 6/284 to a 6mm/06,is there a better of the two?Thanks again,Gary
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2006, 12:25 AM
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Re: .224 Vais vs. 6/284

I own both the 6mm-06 and 6mm-284 both built by Kirby. Case capacity between the two is almost a coin toss with the 6mm-06 having about a 1 grain advantage. I like the fact that i can get high quality brass for the 6mm-284 . Both are awesome performers. If i was building a bench rest style rifle i would choose the 6-284 if i was building a walking varminter i would look at the 6mm-06 as it feeds better than the 6-284. Both are very easy to load for and both are incredibly accurate averaging groups in the .2s and .3s. Although the man that built them should get the credit for that!
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2006, 06:53 AM
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Re: .224 Vais vs. 6/284

6-06 AI ? Should get more out of it.

And laupa brass for both of them.. not sure wich one I would choose.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2006, 08:59 AM
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Re: .224 Vais vs. 6/284

Norhman,

The 6-06 AI is a hell of a round. But, it is does have its problems. Mainly, it works best with the really heavy 6mm bullets. Only problem there is that most of the heavy 6mm bullets are designed for 243 class velocity.

You can also get into some powder bridging issues with some stick powders in the 6-06 AI with its sharp shoulder.

If I were to build a big 6mm with tese three to choose from, I would lean in the same direction as Hvyw8t and choose the 284 version for a heavy rifle and the 6-06 for walking varmint or sporter weight rifle for its feeding characteristics.

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2006, 09:06 AM
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Re: .224 Vais vs. 6/284

Millerlite,

I will echo what Hvyw8t has already mentioned. Of the two its hard to tell or say one is better then the other. Really it comes down to the type of rifle you want to build.

If your going with a heavy single shot, I would go with the 284 version because its shorter, allowing a shorter rifle length and more usible barrel for a given barrel length over the 06.

That said, the 284 is always a bit choppy feeding, just the way it is even if the receiver is set up properly for the round.

On the other hand, the 06 feeds like a dream but brass quality is generally not what the 284 is.

Performance, its a toss up really.

As far as user friendliness on the bench. Both are easy to make, espeically now that you can get 6.5-284 match cases. In the 06 you simply get 25-06 cases if you want the least amount of work on the bench. Both of these cases are one step neck down operations to 6mm. Both use the same burn rate powders and bullet weights as well.

Again, it really comed down to the type of rifle you want. Sporter/repeater I would say 06. Single shot heavy I would say 284.

In either case I would recommend a 1-9 twist 6 groove barrel if you will be shooting the thin jacketed 105 gr class bullets. If you want to shoot the 107 gr Sierra MK then the 3 groove will work but currently I do not think Lilja offers this twist in 3 groove. Others may though.

3 groove barrels can be harder on thin jacketed match bullets at high velocity.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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