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.224 custom 100 grain ULD's for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

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Unread 02-24-2005, 09:26 PM
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.224 custom 100 grain ULD\'s for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

I talked to Richard at wildcat bullets about purchasing some ULD 22 bullets. And he was saying if there was a demand he would make some 100 grain 224 bullets. I love the 22's for the lack of recoil and that they are a pleasure to shoot. The 80's do ok but I figure a bullet with a B>C in the at least .650 and up guessing would be a great help at 1000. The only problem i see is haveing a barrel with that fast of a twist. I think it would need a 1-6 or 6.5 twist to stablize these long heavy bullets. I have had problems with bullets blowing up in fast twist .224's. Richard said his bullets were tough enough to take the twist and speed. I was thinking of a 22-243 with 35 degree shoulder. I think it would drive the 100gr at around 3000 to 3100 no problem. I already have one with a 8 twist and love it. I was just throwing the idea out to see if it was a fesible reality. I love little guns and want every advantage i can get at long range. Hart and pac-nor make 1-6 twist barrels. I don't know what twist it would take to stablize but know with 90 gr JLK it takes a 1-7 so I guess a 1-6 would work for 100 grain. I would appreciat any info as I not the most knowledgeable long range shooter. Thanks Reed
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Unread 02-24-2005, 10:29 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
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Re: .224 custom 100 grain ULD\'s for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

Reed, I believe the military 1,000 yard service rifle shooters use 1:6.5" barrels for the 90s. They still get blown around, but it's neat to watch - in a sadistic kind of way! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Unread 02-25-2005, 06:21 AM
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Re: .224 custom 100 grain ULD\'s for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

If you can get the dimensions of these things, I can calc BC. You covered pretty well, the barriers associated with such extremes. Stability -vs- Jacket integrity. The slightest twitch in a 22-243 load, or shooting conditions, will put you on the Edge.
The bullet would stand a better chance of success with a mildly improved 22br(~42grH20cap), around 2850-2900fps.
It's one of those lonely areas you pioneer yourself. If, you have a good smith close to finish barrels quick, try it. Let us know.
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Unread 02-25-2005, 09:29 AM
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Re: .224 custom 100 grain ULD\'s for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

Reed Mosser,

Are these Wildcat ULDs flat based or Rebated Boattails. I know this goes against everything most here believe as far as extreme range shooting but Richards ULD Flat Base bullets generally offer higher B.C. values then most conventional VLD bullets. Plus they are not extremely long.

Richard Generally has a pretty good idea what twist would be needed for these bullets. I do not know for sure but it would suprise me if a 1-7 would not stabilize these bullets if you get the velocity in the 3000 fps or above range.

I would talk with Richard first and see if he can get you a projected twist needed for these bullets.

The bullets Richard has designed for my Allen Mags have been simply amazing and I suspect you would be nothing but totally satisfied with these big 224 bullets.

It was stated earlier, it can be a lonely road pushing the performance envelope farther out. Well, its lonely until you make it work and then everyone and their dog will be with you.

Good luck and have fun doing it!!

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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Unread 02-25-2005, 12:33 PM
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Re: .224 custom 100 grain ULD\'s for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

What we need is a new way to make bullets. new materials, etc. With the jackets/core tech we have, the ability to make 'strong' High BC bullets in small calibres seems to have reach a point of diminishing returns.

The idea of a 100gr 22cal bullet with a BC over 0.65 would be absolutely wonderful. It would make many shooter reasses the 1000yd game. Unfortunately, I don't know if this bullet could reach 3000fps. Go Richard Go.

Apparently the 90gr JLK's are having distortion issues at higher velocities.

Might be easier to work on a 6mm or 25 cal bullet with BC approaching 0.7+.

I hope there is some enterprising materials engineer and machinists who can come up with the bullet which can propel this sport to the next level.

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Unread 02-25-2005, 12:39 PM
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Re: .224 custom 100 grain ULD\'s for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

Probably one of the best and most respected ballistics gurus around is Henry Childs (HBC) on BR central. Goes by HBC.

He would be my first choice on something like this.

You can send him a PM with all the bullet specs and let him run the calcs for you. I am sure he will have followup questions so exact bullet dimensions will be needed.

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Unread 02-25-2005, 01:21 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Wallaroo, South Australia
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Re: .224 custom 100 grain ULD\'s for 1000 and 500yrd benchrest

Reed, I agree that sourcing and then getting a 100 grain ULD to work would certainly be an interesting challenge. I agree that one of the biggest problems is to co-ordinate the barrel twist with the rpm's the bullet jacket can withstand.

I believe that a 1 in 6.5 twist would stabilise the 100 grain Wildcat RBULD at 3100 - 3200 fps but that a 1 in 7 twist may be marginal at that velocity.

I am not familiar with the number of shots fired in a given time in 500 an 1000 yard benchrest match. However, my biggest concern would be the rate of fire, and as you would have already discovered with you 22/243 AI, 3 shots in 3 minutes and your barrel is hot. So if you have to fire at that pace, then I suggest that you use a much smaller case.

I am also a devotee of the "big 22's", and since 1972 have owned a 22/250, 22/250AI, 220 Swift, 220 Swift AI, 22/284, and about to build up another .224 Clark.

Richard Graves forwarded to me by surface mail his 80 and 85 grain RBULD's about 10 days ago, but it will be another 4 weeks or thereabouts before I get them here in "Oz". I originally ordered some ULD's of 85 grains and whatever was the heaviest his dies and jackets could produce, but after some experimenting he found that 85 grains was the limit.

Richard also mentioned that he could make some 90 and 100 grain 10 ogive flat base HP's, and I asked him to send me some in the next shipment with the 125 grain 257 ULD's, and I would try them. He thought that the Krieger 26 inch 1 in 7 twist barrel which I will be ordering this week should stabilise both his 85 grain ULD and the 90 and 100 grain flat base 10 ogive HP.

I will base the rifle around the 80 grain Sierra HPBT as I still have 450 left, and several others have reported that they shoot accurately and hold together well in a 1 in 7 twist barrel at 3600+ fps. I will experiment with the bullet weights of 85+ grains and see what happens.

I discovered in my first .224 Clark, that the Rem 700 short action magazine box length of 2.800 is too short, so I now have to find a second hand Rem 700 BDL rifle in 270, 280, etc to source the action for .224 Clark (number 2).

My first 224 Clark achieved 3730 fps with the 80 grain Sierra in a 25.25 inch barrel, so this time around, I estimate that the 85 grain ULD should get around 3650 fps, and with the 90 grain JLK or Wildcat FBHP around 3550 fps, and 100 grain FBHP about 3,350fps.

Several years ago, I emailed Corbins regarding making 80 - 90 grain ULD's, and Dave Corbin when replying said " You would need to draw down a .257 jacket to .224 for a 90 grain weight. It works rather well. We have made many sets of these recently, as the current trend leans toward exactly what you ask about."

I would be interested to hear how your project progresses. Regards, Brian.
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