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224 Allen Magnum testing finished............

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Unread 06-28-2006, 08:28 AM
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224 Allen Magnum testing finished............

To all interested.

I have been playing with my 224 AM over the last several months and finally finished up testing with the round and I am sad to say the performance I wanted was just not attainable.

I have never been one to hide my "failures" as I feel they help as much as hurt and can possibly save others alot of time and money down the road.

I got my throat opened up so that I would not have to turn my case necks which really helped speed up the testing proceedures.

Several powders were tested including AA8700, US869 and WC872.

Because the case capacity of the 224 AM is so large(based on the 270 WSM) I used only two bullets, the 100 and 107 gr ULD RBBT from Wildcat Bullets.

I had tested these bullets in a 1-8 twist 22-6mm AI and could not get them to stabilize in this twist. Because of this I ordered in a Lilja 1-7 twist for my personal 224 Allen Mag test rifle.

The last several tests have been the real definition of the round itself. I found with both bullets that accuracy was EXTREMELY good but only at velocities under 3100 fps. In fact at 3000 fps and below they were almost hard to believe playing with the 1/4 moa range with all groups.

At 3100 fps almost to the fps, things were letting loose. I did however continue velocity testing up until the bolt lift just began to get sticky which was right at around 3350 fps so i figured a very comfortable top end velocity potential from this round was 3300 fps in a 26" barrel. That was with the 107 gr ULD RBBT.

The problem here is that we need a 1-7 twist barrel to spin these VERY long 22 cal bullets. But with this fast twist barrel, at least with a 3 groove barrel which I am using, we are limited to 3100 fps max in velocity.

A 5 or 6 groove barrel may well offer more performance but at this point I am not willing to spend the money on tooling or another custom barrel to find out, right now anyway.

These bullets take the 22 cal rounds to a totally different performance level. In a chambering such as a 22-250 or its AI version, the 100 and 107 gr ULD RBBT in a 1-7 twist barrel would be extremely impressive and amazingly accurate. A +.600 BC bullet at +3000 fps is still a serious long range thumper and recoil would be non existant.

Also, rounds such as the 22 BRs and Dashers could also use these bullets for extended reach and get a major boost in ballistic performance.

The problem is not with the bullets, its with me being overly aggressive in case capacity. Just to much for what is needed. So at this time the 224 AM project is stailmated. I have been thinking about doing the same thing but on a 223 WSSM case which would be right in there with the velocity range we would want with these bullets, It would reach 3100 fps pretty easily I believe but would be much more efficent then the WSM based design.

At times bigger is not always better, the 224 AM is one of those cases but it was a fun experiment and we learned alot anyway so it was more then worth the expense.

If you want a mild manored, long range thumper, a fast twist barrel chambered for something from the BR to the 22-250 AI would be very impressive with either of these bullets.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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Unread 06-28-2006, 04:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
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Re: 224 Allen Magnum testing finished............

Well, Hmmmmmm......

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

I still have a REM 722 that surely must need a new barrel by now [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

We'll wait and see what you come up with instead of the 224..

However, my vote for priorities would be to bring the 338 AM in under 16#s dressed. Dressed is Louisana for "w/every thing on it." (Confirm w/JDJones [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

I guess that priority comes right after "production". I can here lerch & BJ chompin' at the bit from way up here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

OOPS, Forgot my question: With top loads of the powders listed, was there any air space in the case after the bullet was seated?

The question isn't related to anything other than my little side project that I'm about to rekindle. I think that local fella finally has that RUM barrel that I got from you, months and months ago, screwed on.
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
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Unread 06-28-2006, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SC
Posts: 224
Re: 224 Allen Magnum testing finished............


I have a .223wssm with a 1-8 twist and it shoots the 70g. TSX at 3600fps from a 26" tube. I have also shot the 90g. SMK's and I think at 3300(but not sure)If it helps I could load some of the 90's up and let you know for sure. My barrel is a 6 groove hart barrel. It is pretty accurate with just about every powder I have tried. Just have not had time to key in on one load yet. By the way, I am the one who has been talking to you about the 257,6.5,and 270A [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Unread 06-28-2006, 07:16 PM
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Re: 224 Allen Magnum testing finished............

50, was this with the front ignition or did you revert to conventional rear priming?
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Unread 06-28-2006, 08:01 PM
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Re: 224 Allen Magnum testing finished............


I was wondering the same thing, but didn't ask the question straight out..... Which was the reason for my question after the OOPS...

Was wondering if there were any room for the flash tube. I'm assembling components to upgrade my FI experiments. One fella was nice enough to loan an RSI pressure trace outfit. I already have the computer and chrono. And a second chrono provided by another LRH fella.

I had ordered a 224AM, wanted to be the first, but got queezie and switch'd to a 270AM.

I have had a 24" 338 Win barrel removed and a 26" RUM barrel fitted especially for FI testing. The Win just wasn't enough of a cartridge to FI to make a major difference. Plus I was loading to way to high of pressures. (the RSI will really help here) The RUM will be better. I plan on testing w/225/250/275gr bullets. The cartridge is a bit puny for the 300gr bullets, I think.

I have pics of the 224AM cartridge on my wall, Its a sweet lookin' cartridge [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
I may be the slowest guy on the mountain . . . . but . . . . I'm on the mountain!
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Unread 06-28-2006, 08:46 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 347
Re: 224 Allen Magnum testing finished............

Sorry to here your .224 allen mag didn't work out. I too have found that in fast twist barrels that bullets can only take so much. To bad for us guess will have to live with it until they start making more bonded bullets. I had problems at first finding the right powder and load for my 22 dasher 6.5 twist and 100 rbbt. At first I tried ramshot magnum with 2865 fps. After about 100 rounds I got a carbon problem and accuracy was not there day in and day out. I have since switched to ramshot hunter 35.0 grains and am getting a honest 2990 fps at 7 feet from the muzzle. It is shooting great already killed a few hogs out to 650. I am trying to save it for the ohio 1000 yard benchrest match, if I can make one this year. I wouldn't be scared to try the 22 dasher, 22-243 ackley, 223 wssm in your 7 twist lilja they are all up to the task. Thanks for posting you info I was hoping it would work out. If it makes you feel any better many guys have thrown fits over 22-284 and bullets coming apart. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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Unread 06-28-2006, 08:47 PM
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: El Reno, OK
Posts: 1,497
Re: 224 Allen Magnum testing finished............

BJ is chompin, I am headbutting the wall I am so excited to see this big mother!!!

I hate to see the death of the 224 AM but I got a strange idea that this wont be the last killer 22cal to come out of APS, I will be eagerly anticipating what this crazy nut from up north comes up with.

Steve Elmenhorst
Third Generation Shooting Supply
"Products for shooters, by shooters"
monday-friday 8:30-5:30 CST
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