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.223 for deer?

 
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2007, 08:55 PM
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If I had a dollar everytime the hillbillies in Missouri told me my 45-70 was *&%^#@! stupid and I shouldn't use an "elephant gun" for deer, I would have Mr. Allen make me a rifle...
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2007, 12:10 AM
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Have used a 223 with the 64gr win bullet. Go by at
having no less than 1000ft lbs of energy ends close
to 140 yards out of most barrels. Does shoot well in
a1/12 twist as well as 1/9 barrels.
Next is shot placement the most important.....
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2007, 06:40 AM
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Thanks for the responses, guys. At least here on this site I knew I would get some decent educated responses and I appreciate it.

Dave King,
I LOVE your normal distribution chart! I minored in statistics in college and can appreciate it fully. Perhaps there's some way to conduct an R-square analysis on the data to insure that the true dumbazzes are being captured by the sample.
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2007, 06:43 AM
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What twist?

What twist is your rifle.

Shoot the heaviest projectiles you can if the barrel is a 9 twist load the 65gr Siera SPBT if faster shoot as heavy as pssible if 7 twist 90gr MatchKings if 8 80gr MatchKings.

You get the picture. you must however have good shot placement.
we have rebarreled 7 223Rem Rem 700's to 6mmTCU we extend the mag box and the owners shoot 105gr A Max's in 8 twists around 2700fps they are a big step up in energy and the 107gr MatchKings also shoot well at heavier game.

The owners use them as their kulling rifles for rabbits ,goats, pigs and deer aswel as other pests but I believe the 6.8SPC is a better all round for a property owner here in Australia.

Cheers Bill
Australia
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2007, 01:08 AM
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Trigger, I've enjoyed the replies you got on what could have easily degenerated to a pi$$ing contest. Several of the guys who use or endorse the use of a .223 (with caveats) have to be listened to. But I still don't recommend it for deer. I have killed several deer and have seen deer killed by others that had been wounded. Some were fresh wounds, some were old enough to be haired over, and weren't found until the deer were skinned and dressed. Recovered bullets and fragments were nearly all small cal, appearently .22 cal, (jacket bases, usually) with a couple of .243's, and one .30 carbine ! I've never seen or recovered a 7mm, .30 cal, .338, or .45 cal fragment from a previously wounded deer. I also have only killed one deer that had an old exit wound anywhere. That exception was a .243 jacket base with a little lead left in it that was lodged in the inside of a hind leg after passing low through the paunch. All 3 holes were partly haired over ! That deer also had a fresh superficial wound low on the front of his neck.

I will concede that if it was the only rifle I had, I would use it, but not over 200 yds, and only then if I had a head shot on a deer that was standing still.

Another big factor in my preference for larger calibers was a case of terrible shot placement on 2 does 10 yrs apart. Not my finest hour. I gut shot a doe at 285 yds with a .300 H&H (190 gr Smkhp). It knocked her down so hard that she died before she was able to get up. I watched her die. That sucks. Did it again 10 yrs later with a 7-08 at 140 yds. She didn't go down, stood still for a minute, then walked about 20 yds and fell over. That sucks too, (it ruined both hunts for me) but in both cases, neither deer made it out of my sight. With a .223, I doubt I would ever have found either one.

My go-to gun is a .30 x .378, backup is a 7-08 or a .280 Rem. All can shoot better than I can, but the .30-by is an open can of whup-ass. BTW,I do have a very fine AR-15 that I carry with me in case I get a chance to hose some pigs. And I'm not a bit picky about the distance on them.

I regret getting so long-winded, but to sum up, if you have a choice, I still don't recommend limiting your hunting with a caliber that has so many practical and ethical limitations.

A comment for Dave King's bell curve. "That's funny, I don't care who you are". Just once though, I'd like to be in statistical control on ANY bell curve.

Whatever you decide, good hunting, Tom
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2007, 03:59 PM
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In my younger/poorer days I killed a few deer to survive on with Stingers out of my 10-22. Perfect brainshots everytime resulted in instant bang flops. I'm sure the same bullet placement with a 223 loaded with Partitions would do the same thing. Bullet placement is supercucial to clean kills with the peashooters. I limit my range with the smallbores to as far as I can guarantee a < 1" group on that shot.
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specweldtom View Post
Trigger, I've enjoyed the replies you got on what could have easily degenerated to a pi$$ing contest.
I agree 100%.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, guys. I think I'll completely forego using the .223 for deer and step it up to at least .243.

I'm looking for a round that I can enjoy shooting at the range, working up loads and such and still hunt with. I already have a .270, but it kicks like a mule (to me). I'm very recoil sensitive, and sometimes even my .243 even gives me a headache after a few shots.
Maybe I should just stick with my .22 lr for the range and use the .270 when it comes to the "moment of truth".
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