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22-250 for heavier bullets?

 
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2004, 07:36 AM
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Re: 22-250 for heavier bullets?

Timberflint,

Over the last 35 years, I have used a variety of .224 centrefires including 222Rem, 22/250, 22/250 AI, 220 Swift, 220 Swift AI, 22/284, and 224 Clark (22/257 Roberts imp.). I believe the comments and suggestions by Fifty Driver, Crispin Goodall, and Brianb are excellent.

Although my best long range field shooting was done with a custom 22/250 (1 in 14 twist) some 35 years ago, I agree with Fifty Driver that the 22/250 AI, is probably the best option for the type of shooting you have in mind.

A 1 in 9 twist would be required to stabilise
a 75 grain VLD or the 75 grain Amax. A 1 in 8 twist would be required to stabilise the 80 grain VLD's of Berger and JLK. A 1 in 7 twist would be needed if you wanted to use the 90 grain JLK.

You may be tempted into using a larger capacity case to obtain the extra performance, but the trade off is that you require a quality SS barrel, and then contend with more frequent barrel cleaning to prevent fouling problems. The cases of 55+ grains capacity are hot after 3 shots in 3 minutes, so you have to space your shots if you want to avoid damage to the sensitive throat area.

However, if you can manage the problems, the performance from larger cases such as the 22/6m AI, which Fifty Driver mentioned is exhillerating, and I believe that he was being conservative when he mentioned the 400 fps differential between the larger cases and the 22/250.

To illustrate this, my .224 Clark achieved 3,930 fps with the 69 grain Sierra HPBT, and after 1600 shots I had the barrel set back and rechambered to the 22/250 AI, and in the same barrel with the same bullet, I am now getting 3,430 fps, which is a difference of 500 fps. Compared to the standard 22/250 it would be about 650 - 700 fps.

The case capacity of the 22/250 is about 43.0 grains, 22/250 AI 28 deg.- 49.2 grains, 220 Swift- 50.4 grains, 220 Swift AI 40 degree- 55.4 grains, 22/257 Roberts (22/6mm similar) - 57.1 grains, 22/284 - 63.8 grains, 224 Clark 63.8 grains. I understand that the newly introduced .223 WSSM has a capacity of about 54.5 grains, but the case requires that you use a different or modified boltface.

Good luck, and hope the above helps. Regards, Brian.
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2004, 08:00 AM
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Re: 22-250 for heavier bullets?

Brian Winzor,

I agree with your comments as well. THe 22-6mm AI is the ballistic Tip of the 224 Clark. Only real difference is that the Clark was designed to shoot the extremely heavy bullets whereas the 22-6mm AI was designed to shoot the conventional weight bullets.

This certainly does not mean it is not well designed for such bullets though.

I generally try to be a little conservative when listing expected velocity ranges for different rounds.

As a gun builder, if I tell a customer that he will get 500 fps more velocity with the 22-6mm AI over his 22-250 AI, and he only gets 400 fps, there are certain folks around today that get kind of pissy about such things.

Most shooters are educated enough to know that variations in barrels will prevent all velocities from being totally consistant from one rifle to another.

There are some out there that will hold you to the letter of your word and demand you fix their "PROBLEM" when they get +400 fps instead of +500 fps.

I error on the conservative side of things. It is this same small group of individuals that are even more satisfied when they actually beat what you tell them.

SO if I predict a little low and they get more velocity then I tell them, they think they got a deal so to speak.

I have yet to have a conversation with anyone on this board that would fall into this group of people but in business I guess I have just conditioned myself to be conservative.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2004, 03:27 PM
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Re: 22-250 for heavier bullets?

Wow, looks like I asked my question in the right place. What a wealth of knowledge here.

Thank you all.

Keep smiling.

Tim
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  #11  
Old 09-15-2004, 01:11 AM
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Re: 22-250 for heavier bullets?

what kind of velocity can one expect from a 220 swift in a 1-9 twist three groove barrel. i have been told the a max will come apart in a 1-8 or faster barrel. has any one tried the nosler vld 69-80 gr bullets

tia
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  #12  
Old 09-15-2004, 03:55 AM
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Re: 22-250 for heavier bullets?

Timberflint

I have a Tikka 595 rebarelled with a Border 1 in 8 twist heavy profile chambered for 22-250 AI, set into a Mcmillan Sako varmint stock.

I use exclusively 75 grain A-max moly under 39.5grains of RL22, get approx 3290fps and .45"groups at 100. Not excessive long range, but have taken bunnies out to 450yards with regularity. Very nice to shoot, no recoil, blast controlled by BR silencer. Shot well over 1200 rounds now with no discernable loss of accuracy. Fireforming Ackley case is easy and load data is available via usual scources. Get one NOW!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2004, 07:47 AM
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Re: 22-250 for heavier bullets?

timberflint
I am the ex-owner of the .22-.284 that brian b was mentioning earlier and the owner of the current .22-250 AI. I can tell you that the 250 is waaaayyy better than the 284! I get within 150 fps using 11 grains less powder and a 4 inch SHORTER barrel! The 22-250 AI is awesome. I have repeatedly taken fat rockchucks with it from 500 yards out to 1100 yards! I can spot all my shots without a muzzle brake and it is not temperamental. I shoot the 75 gr a-max at 3400 fps with standard deviations usually in the single digits. My load with the current lot of powder and primers is 42.5 of H4831sc in a Federal case with Fed210gm primers. One thing I really ought to mention also is that I first was shooting nosler j4's and Berger 80 vld's, but I shot several rockchucks as close as 300 yards and all they did was poke holes. I even had one chuck re-immerge from his hole 30 minutes after I had squarely hit him in the guts and he started to eat his dinner! Since switching to the a-max, I haven't lost one. It always explodes them with high order detonation! Hope this helps.

[ 09-15-2004: Message edited by: goodgrouper ]
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  #14  
Old 09-15-2004, 08:27 AM
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Re: 22-250 for heavier bullets?

Foxhunter,

THe A-Max will top out at around 3200-3250 fps in a 1-8" twist, at least that is what I am seeing with the 22, 6mm and 6.5 versions in mu custom rifles.

The Sierra Mk's will generally get you another +300 fps accurately but on game performance will suffer. If your pucnching paper they are great and if you use larger diameter Mk's they also work great. The small, 22 and 6mm versions do not perform real well on light varmints, under 15 lbs at extreme range.

In a 1-9 twist, this will be a little different. I have a customer shootign the 105 gr A-Max bullets out of his 6mm-06 at just shy of 3600 fps and he is getting groups in the .3" range.

The slower twist certainly is more gental to the A-Max but you also need the velocity to make them work well.

The 220 AI will have plenty of power to do this. I would say you will get 100 fps more then the 22-250 AI.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen(50)
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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