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190gn and up in .300 win mag?

 
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  #1  
Old 09-23-2009, 04:13 PM
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190gn and up in .300 win mag?

I'm preparing a load for hunting ibex in Kyrgyzstan in 3 weeks time.
The 220SMK, 200SMK, 190SMK, are the pool of hevier bullets I have to choose from. I only have IMR4895, VV N160 and VVN560 to use as powders.

I wasn't able to find much info on these weights for loads, so I'd like to hear what people have found works best out to the 800 yard mark. Can I get away with a 180gn bullet for these kinds of distances?

Any advice would be appreaciated, tomorrow I will shoot the first batch of 220grainers and see if they prefer one specific powder, if the 220gn SMK's wont shoot then I'll start looking at the lighter choices. I'm running a Shilen select match grade barrel 1:10 twist, so it should stabilize, 26" long on a trued Remington 700 action out of a Manners stock.

Thanks.
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:44 PM
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Re: 190gn and up in .300 win mag?

Honestly, the 190 SMK has performed very unpredictabley in hunting situations. Hornaday makes the 190 BTSP which opens quite nicely and has a decent BC. It is published at .490 but I have always found it to be in the area of .515. Also I would be looking very hard at the 180 or 200 Nosler ACCUBONDS. The 200 AB has a very good BC. It is higher than the 190 SMK and the 200 SMK. Either will give you enough remaining velocity at your ranges and then some for reliable expansion. If you demand a higher BC than those that are good for hunting then maybe look at either the 210 Berger VLD or the 208 AMAX. Ibex hunts are not cheap or easy as a general rule. Dont put all that time, money and effort into it and rely on something that unpredictable such a bullet that may or may not deliver what you NEED to be successfull. Maybe not what you wanted to hear but that is my .02
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Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Please just answer one very simple question. Why would anyone shooting long range load a low BC , low SD 168 gr offering in a 300 win???????

My answer to this is. The only reason is to make the 7 RM look good. There is no other reason.

Jeff.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:04 PM
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Re: 190gn and up in .300 win mag?

Well after todays session, I found that the 220gn SMK's shoot just so fine that I have settled on the bullet.

A load of 62.6gn of VV N560 gave 2550fps and a group of .38MOA.
Next in line was VV N560 with 65.5gn and that shot .8MOA at 2650fps.
This was just preliminary testing but I think there is very little to play with here. I am pretty sure that I can get the 220SMK to about 2800/2750fps since there are no pressure signs yet.
VV N160 was right on MOA, IMR4895 was all over the place.
Was shooting at 300 meters, breeze up to 8mph at times.
I might do a ladder shoot tomorrow or just make up some 3 shot batches to see where the sweet spot is, if I can find another one closer to 2800.
What kinds of speeds are people getting with the 220grainers in .300wim mag?

I honestly can't see a problem with terminal ballistics using the 220gn SMK on ibex, there is just so much lead and SD there that even if it does start to come apart there will still be a big chunk there to carry on. With a BC of .629 it's going to be wicked shooting through the wind, and I prefer to compensate more more drop than dope more wind.

Things look good, and I've got plenty of free time to dedicate to shooting before I go, only real hassle is that it's almost unseasonably hot here now, which means long pauses between shots and higher pressures compared to what I will get in Kyrgyzstan.
I spent the evening preparing 100 pieces of new brass, tomorrow I'll shoot some more and start to experiment the drop at the longer ranges.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:22 PM
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Re: 190gn and up in .300 win mag?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EXPRESS View Post
even if it does start to come apart there will still be a big chunk there to carry on.
If the SMK's came unglued there wouldnt be a problem. Unfortunatley it can be the opposite. A pencil thin hole in and a pencil thin hole going out. :(
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Please just answer one very simple question. Why would anyone shooting long range load a low BC , low SD 168 gr offering in a 300 win???????

My answer to this is. The only reason is to make the 7 RM look good. There is no other reason.

Jeff.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: 190gn and up in .300 win mag?

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Originally Posted by Michael Eichele View Post
If the SMK's came unglued there wouldnt be a problem. Unfortunatley it can be the opposite. A pencil thin hole in and a pencil thin hole going out. :(
I'm not trying to argue with you michael , with that being said what is the difference between the .338 300 grain matchking and a 190, 200 ,210 ,220 matchking? Now I understand that is an entirely different round (but) it's a matchking and several members use it for long range kills so why would you recomend not using a matchking for hunting . Do you use them in your .338? Has anyone experienced this in the .338 seems like they would have? Again I'm not trying to argue just want to be educated .

Thanks for your insight in advance

BIGBUCK
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Last edited by bigbuck; 09-24-2009 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 09-24-2009, 04:53 PM
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Re: 190gn and up in .300 win mag?

The Matchking for hunting is a fairly hot topic, they are in effect target bullets, not intentionally designed for hunting. This means that you can get unpredictable results, however in my experience they are a fairly fragile bullet and tend to fragment rather than act like a solid.
I have not used the 220gn MKs before so I will try them in some wet newpaper or other medium just to get an idea of what they will do.

I doubt that it will act as a solid, they have a thin jacket, but in the case of the 220gn SMK you should still get a large portion of the bullet holding together towards the rear, which along with the fragments coming off the front can provide devastating damage.

Bullet placement is always going to be the key, just that with MKs you can't afford to take raking, heavily quartering shots, but we can never afford to take these kind of shots in LR situations anyway.

To put things into perspective, I have used 70gn ballistic tips out of my 6PPC esclusively for nearly 10 years and have shot well over 100 animals with that load, some of them big deer and pigs. In the worst cases, the entire bullet disentegrated while only the copper base continued, but still causing a lot of damage. I have never lost a animal with those tiny bullets.

I have some Berger 190gn hunting VLD's coming which might end up being the ones I take, but until then I am not going to worry too much about the Match King debate, they have and will continue to kill a lot of animals.
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Old 09-24-2009, 06:14 PM
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Re: 190gn and up in .300 win mag?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbuck View Post
I'm not trying to argue with you michael , with that being said what is the difference between the .338 300 grain matchking and a 190, 200 ,210 ,220 matchking? Now I understand that is an entirely different round (but) it's a matchking and several members use it for long range kills so why would you recomend not using a matchking for hunting . Do you use them in your .338? Has anyone experienced this in the .338 seems like they would have? Again I'm not trying to argue just want to be educated .

Thanks for your insight in advance

BIGBUCK
No argument taken.

I cannot vouch for the 338 300 grain SMK as I have not used it on game yet. I am willing to try that due to the very WIDE success of that particular bullet. It may have to do with the very large frontal area and mass quantity of weight behind it that helps it open up. I dont know that as I am just theorizing outloud.

The SMK's I do have experience with on game (mostly 168, 190 SMK's) have left me in want for a hunting bullet. It seems that at certain ranges (depending where you hit them) they will open and at other ranges they have not and in other circumstances they have gone absolutely ballistic so to speak. Personaly I just have not had any consistent results with them only unpredictable results. I know others here have had excellent results from scenario to scenario and I am not here to take that success away from them or try and steer them away from them. As for me and my expeiences with them I choose to use 'hunting' bullets and recomend to those who have not used them on game as of yet to stick with hunting bullets. Espescially on a very expensive hard once in a lifetime affair. Why risk even a little unpredicablility?

Not trying to start any flame.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Please just answer one very simple question. Why would anyone shooting long range load a low BC , low SD 168 gr offering in a 300 win???????

My answer to this is. The only reason is to make the 7 RM look good. There is no other reason.

Jeff.
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