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111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

 
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  #1  
Old 02-04-2011, 10:33 PM
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111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

Has anyone else experienced this: Please respond.

I was out at the range today with my son and his new Savage Model: 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag. It has all those published accuracy bells and whistles. To top it off he has a professionally mounted NightForce 5.5-22x50mm.

We are in for a big fight with Savage. This particular rifle sucks and after a first time phone call with Savage, it looks like we are going to have to take it up higher if at all possible.

Ammunition - Federal Blue Box; Nosler Custom (AccuBond) and Federal Premium (Barnes TTSX) All at 180 Grain.

I tried to keep him encouraged, making up some excuses as we went but groups for all three ammunitions were not only so freaking inconsistent you had to wonder if you were dreaming, but the groups were often 5-8 inches at 200 yards. Not one single grouping was decent. Not one. We rotated the ammo, allowed barrel to cool after 4-6 rounds, made sure scope was secure, validated we broke barrel in correctly 2 weeks ago on its first outing (and thought those first 10 rounds were just off because it was new)

So on the way home, he contacts Savage. Explains both range times with Savage. First thing they stated was they only guarantee 1.5 group at 100. Wrong answer!!! If this rifle at almost $1000.00 with all those fancy accuracy tricks can only do that, then what is this difference between this rifle and my $399.00 Weatherby Vanguard. Savage then states they tested using 180 gr bullets. Yup, that is all we are using. After all was said and done, Savage states there is nothing they are obligated to do.

So we get on the internet and find a gunsmith that works on nothing but Savage rifles for the last 30 years. son explains everything to him and he responds with, yup, I have been seeing an awful lot of these new "accuracy" rifles poorly made and Savage won't stand behind their product and help the customer. He takes the rifles and correct the issues and guarantees 1/2 groups at 100 yards with premium over the counter ammo.

Son has another $399.00 Savage and the rifle is so incredibly accurate and it doesn't have all those accuracy tricks.

Right now he has to try to figure out what he is going to do with his Long distance rifle that a slingshot can out shoot. As for first impressions with Savage on a scale of 1-10 --> negative 100. What a way to respond to a customer and to top it off they know they have quality problems. If you got one of these accuracy rifles and it is shooting great, than that is super, but what would you do if you just got one like my son just got?

We will find out this Monday what is going to happen. Even Weatherby has a Vanguard model that is guaranteed to shoot less than 1" groups out of the box, and Savage has the disrespect to state 1.5" after bragging about l their proprietary accuracy tricks?

Very Sad and Mad
338 WinMag
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2011, 11:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 281
Re: 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

That sucks to hear!

My first question would be this--were you thoroughly cleaning your rifle between using the different loads? The reason I ask is that I had TERRIBLE groups when I switched between Nosler and Barnes bullets in my 7.82 Warbird. That's when I learned that layering and fouling from different jacket material could throw groups way off. Once I cleaned my barrel and stuck with one type of bullet, my groups shrank to 1/2".

Second question--how is your scope/mount set up? Was it sliding like it was on glass bearings between the rings before you cinched it down? I just recently had trouble with what my friend called "scope torque" and it threw groups all over the place on a proven accurate SPS tactical .308. Once I remounted the scope, the groups shrank back to normal.

5-8 inches is terrible, and should be cause for concern. If it's the gun, I'm sure Savage will make it right--this is the first time I've heard negative things about them.
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2011, 12:12 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Posts: 15
Re: 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

My buddie has the 111 in 6.5x284 it is accurate....
But after the shot his bolt is hard to lift, this is with factory ammo and mild handloads.. I asked him to call savage and the response from savage was it's like a tight pussy how can that be bad???
I was getting ready to pounce on one in 7mm mag. But i will wait and see what shows up next...

I hope you get this resolved ...I wanted to post this link on Savages facebook page but I guess I am to challanged to do it.. sometimes shame is the best tool
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2011, 11:09 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pocahontas, AR
Posts: 897
Re: 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2hnt View Post
My buddie has the 111 in 6.5x284 it is accurate....
But after the shot his bolt is hard to lift, this is with factory ammo and mild handloads.. I asked him to call savage and the response from savage was it's like a tight pussy how can that be bad???
I was getting ready to pounce on one in 7mm mag. But i will wait and see what shows up next...

I hope you get this resolved ...I wanted to post this link on Savages facebook page but I guess I am to challanged to do it.. sometimes shame is the best tool
That is a rather humorus response, but if I had just laid out the cash for the rifle I am not sure it would be well received.
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  #5  
Old 02-05-2011, 12:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 77
Re: 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

I have received a few excellent suggestions on what my son can do to test out if this is really a rifle issue or a shooting practice issue we employed at the range. Unfortuantely he pretty much absoutely believes it is the rifle and he could very well be correct but in my life I try to eliminate all possiblities before I start forking over a lot of money.

A gunsmith specializing in only Savage firearms is stating that this rifle should be shooting 1/2" groups at 100 yards with over the counter factory premium ammo. The gunsmith is also stating that he can correct the accuracy issues with some of his special gunsmithing (fire lapping?) and such. With his skills he can make this factory over the counter Savage firearm shoot consistent .3 and .4 shot groups???

Being a reloader, here is my big question of the day:

I have broke down many over the counter factory ammo including the premium ammo from the big names. I am not impressed. Larger than average bullet runout numbers, case lengths not consistent, bullet weight not consistent, power not consistent, seating depth to ogive not consistent. The opposite of these very things are what makes accuracy at their very best.

But there is even other factors. Sure Savage built in a minimal headspace tolerance but that only accounts for the true headspace face of breech to where the case stops (for magnums and rimmed). There is still the factor that the new over the counter ammo is not fireformed to your chamber so your bullet alignment to bore can be off as well as irregular case expansion to shoulder affecting bullet start.

Also, we al know that bullet depth seating is a very big factor for getting those rounds within Sub MOA accuracy so I am a little confused that an over the counter rifle (Even the Great & Almighty Savage 111 Long Range Hunter) as an overall purchase should get such consistent tight groups (according to the Gunsmith) and that his special work can do even better with the original chamber and barrel (aside from Savage's 111 proprietary bedding and trigger)

Please tell me this is realistically and truly possible and his expectation of at least .5 groups for Savage default and gunsmith proven .3-.4" groups possible with over the counter premium ammo? I just hate to see someone loose a lot of money for unrealistic expectations.

Please plese no hype. Just realistic facts that are applicable to a large majority.

"I could be wrong" as Charles Barkleys says but ..

Thanks
338WinMag
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2011, 07:38 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OK
Posts: 2,145
Re: 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

The best I could suggest is to take the rifle to a good smith with a bore scope. Have him inspect the rifle for any glarring problems. There has to be a glaring problem for it to shoot this bad.

If there is an issue have him document it and you send it all back to savage, with the targets, properly identify the ammunition,range,and conditions the groups were fred under.

If it easily fixed have the smith do it, but at that point it better be right so if returned savage dosn't claim warrenty void from modification.
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2011, 08:54 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 25
Re: 111 Long Range Hunter in 300 Win Mag

I would go to walmart buy a box of cheap winchester 180grain power-points(win PP in most calibers normally shoots well in most rifles), clean the barrel well tonight. go to the range with a clean bore and fire 2rounds to foul it ,let cool, then take your time with a 3shot group. If those 3 rounds don't go into half an inch then I'm thinking it's a bad barrel(happens here and there) or something in the scope mounting system is moving around! Although it could be as simple as barrel touching the stock or just take the barreled action out of the stock see if anythings in there that shouldn't be and reinstall/tighten normal 2 screws then the 3rd.
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Last edited by 300ECHO; 02-05-2011 at 09:00 PM.
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