I agree, I would not use that bullet through the shoulder, I'd be more confident with lungs, heart shots.
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Not saying the 25-06 wont do it, but man thats pushing it IMO.
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I know what you mean! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Also I would rather to kill using 500 ft-lbs at 200 yards than 500 ft-lbs at 1000 yards. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
Like I said, I know the feeling. Also this is interesting:
Energy is what makes bullets deadly to game, yet it's momentum that knocks game off its feet or knocks metal targets over.
A 200 gr. 0.308 bullet with 500 ft-lb of energy would have about 30.4 lb-ft/sec momentum.
A 100 gr. 0.25 bullet with 500 ft-lb or energy would have about 21.5 lb-ft/sec momentum.
That said, we would need our 25-06 bullett to have an energy of about 984 ft/sec (at 650 yards away) to have the same momentum of a 30 caliber bullet. So that feeling of yours of about shooting the 100 gr. to 600 yards is not absolutly a crazy feeling. I concur! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Bottom line is... 500 ft-lb of energy is much better from a heavier bullet than a lighter bullet! Even though the energy is the same for both bullets, the momentum is not, and that would give us an edge.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Our Lord Jesus said that as it was in the days of Noah and
also as it was in the days of Lot so it shall be in the days...
It's happening again!!! God sent to us His prophet, and His Word
to this generation and we once more are rejecting it as was prophesied!!! ---> As promised, God Sent His Prophet to us!
I started out shooting the 100gr BT in my 25 when it was new. In fact I had 40 rounds loaded for two weeks before I even had the rifle. I broke the barrel in and then went to work on serious load development with it. I tweaked a load in for the 100's that shot scary tight at 200yds, with groups under 1/2" being very common.
After about three seasons here in Tx, I decided that I had enough of the 100's and their result on our deer. IF they came out at less than 100yds it literally exploded on them and out past 250 they startd to get drifty, and I couldn't count on just what the end result would be. A couple of deer dropped to the shot, several others took off like they were complete misses, only to be found later after going out to check for sure. Not that this is common for everyone as a lot of folks love this combo, I am just particular in what I like to have a bullet do do game. I prefer that I get adequate penetration from just about any angle I might be presented with. I only shoot if I can cross through the chest and at least have a chance of breaking one or both shoulders. Most of my shots with this rifle were through the neck/ shoulder junction so that it pretty much disabled everything immediately. Sort of the high shoulder shot. As such, sometimes the bullet would get through the bone and sometimes not. It was the not that had me concerned. I even gave the 100gr PT a try for a while but gave it up over the slightly heavier 115 once I got a good supply of them.
Once I switched to the 115gr PT @ 3150fps over 56.5grs of RL-22, I never looked back. You said your looking for a cheaper bullet, well I can certianly appreciate that. However, with the PT, you never have to worry about the close up shot or any penetration issue with them. My bud Tim shot a sow hog out past 200yds which was coming straight to him. He put two through the onside (left) shoulder, and they both ended up just under the hide on the right ham. This was about 3'+ of total penetration through the shoulder, and breaking the pelvis and such. The first shot broke her down pretty good but they are very resiliant critters and have a habit of keeping on their feet, especially when they have a good stream of adrenalin pumping. The second one did the finial deed, and anchored her.
I have taken deer, yotes and hogs out to 400yds+ with them as well. They shoot very well out of my rifle and as for the price, knowing that they will get-r-done when they get there more than offsets the extra price.
On a side note, I passed this particular rifle over to my daughter for her early Christmas present. Just before when checking the groups, it was all over the place. I pulled it down, bedded it, and switched up the load to the 110gr AB. Used the same powder charge as the 115's and was getting 3250 out of them and grouping right back at 1/2" at 200yds. I am not sure if she will continue with this load or refer back to the 115's as she wanted to try something a little different. However with close to 30 deer and around that many hogs and other critters combined, I never had to worry about what the intended target was going to do when I dropped the hammer using this combo.
Not that your experience will be different than a ton of happy folks out there, just thought I would pass along another perspective.
All lung shots but one. My wife shot an antelope quartering toward her at 304 yds. with the 100 BT. She hit it thru the front of the shoulder and into the lungs, no bone. It dropped so fast I had trouble finding it in the sage. All bullets came completely apart inside the animals. Sometimes you could find the bullet base but that was it.
I had a friend of my dads tell me that a ballistic tip would not bust a shoulder on a deer and to use a partition. When I had my 25/06 my load was 58gr of H-4831 and a 100gr B-tip leaving the muzzle at 3315fps. My first rifle buck ever fell to this load and I busted both front shoulders with one shot. Yep that is right both fronts. I will never forget that shot. It was 412 yards broadside paced off since back then you didn't have a laser range finder the rifle was sighted in for 300 yards and I just held high on his back. That was 15 years ago and now I feel old. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] That load killed lots of deer and other critters and like a fool I traded the rifle. I also agree you will see better results on deer size game with non bonded bullets.
I've shot the .25-06 longer than they have made factory rifles for them. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Don't start counting on me now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
I've taken over 100 deer with them and owned 12 of them total and still own 3, a Custom Rem 700 .25-06AI, a Browning B78 .25-06 and a Ruger 77V .25-06. Since my first rifle I have shot the Serria 117 BTSP on deer. About the time that Nosler came out with the 100gr BT I switched my Ruger over to them. I tried it on deer but if I tried to break bone with them it didn't work too well. Rib shots could be good and bad depending on range and wether I hit bone or not. On side shots hitting them at the last rib going back was awsome. It takes out the diaphrame and part of the liver usually and their DRT. Same with low chest shots thru the heart. Lung shots were not as reliable. Sometimes took a bit.
With the Serria 117 BTSP sholder shots were good. Ruins some meat but it worked. Neck shots were awsome. Furtherest shot on a deer was 715 measured and was a heart shot and it looked like someone had driven a .25 drill rod thru the deer. It droped it instantly but the bullet didn't open up just drove a .25" hole completly thru the deer including the heart. On elk the 115 Nosler worked awsome at 330 steped off yards. Took two thru the chest and one in the neck to bring it down. It was dead just didn't know it and I sure didn't want it bailing off into the ravine and having to figure out how to get it out again. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] But the main thing I found is the 100gr Bt's work well on coyotes. The 117gr BTSP's work great on Deer and the 115gr NP's work great on Elk.
Right now I'm working on the .25-06AI and 110gr AB to use for deer and am hoping it might be a perfect marriage between the 100 Bt's and the 117 SPBT depending on how they group in my new gun.
First its good to see you posting some coyotes. I was wondering how long till you started filling the pages with their pretty little faces.
Second, I shot a 257 wby for quite some time and I worked at nosler for a while also. I used the 100 grn bts for antelope and I took a marginal shot at 427 yds with the critter facing me and I Kentuckied too much wind for the laser I was shooting(6 years ago, I am a better man now!)and took OUT the front shoulder. In fact I twisted about 3 times and I had my first quarter, a front leg.... Anyways, if you are just going to hit them in body cavity they are great instant kills. Just dont hit any bones! I also wanted to add. The cosmetic blems that were mentioned earlier are sold as that and may not be exactly that. When you are setting up a press or get weight varriance during the run which may be over a million bullets, all those bullets go into a bucket below the press and those are your seconds. Sure some only have tip gaps or lube serrations or maybe just a scratch. You are going to be getting all the other problems that have been had along the way.