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Zeiss Rapid Z 800 & 1000 scopes for M1A (M21) .308 UPDATE

 
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  #1  
Old 03-14-2010, 11:43 AM
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Posts: 78
Zeiss Rapid Z 800 & 1000 scopes for M1A (M21) .308 UPDATE

My Springfield M1A (M21) can group well under an inch with 168 SMKs, Lapua brass, CCI 34 primers, and 40.5 grs. of H4895.
I haven't tried past 100 yards yet, but, since I've been looking at buying a Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z 800 or Z 1000 scope, the dope on their website has caused me to recently write the following:

'Been doing some hunting for the best scope for my Springfield M1A (M21).

Springfield Armory Rifles



ZEISS RAPID Z 1000 RETICLE vs. RAPID Z 800 RETICLE
Both are around $925
And both are 4.5-14x50
http://www.zeiss.de/C1256BCF0020BE5F/Contents-Frame/E34E4125AA548D6685256BCF0061320D

Note: Please enter your information into our Rapid-Z Calculator to ensure that you make the best possible reticle selection
based on your caliber, bullet, hunting conditions and location.

According to their calculator for the Rapid Z 1000 (designed for the .308 Match ammo):
This IS the value for .308, Sierra 168-gr. MK (BC =.462),
Velocity: 2,550 fps,
Elevation: 4,500 ft. ASL
Temp: 80 degrees F

The Rapid Z 1000:
With their calculator, and the scope power ring set to 11.8x (12 power):
*Optimize Power for: Bar No. 10 - Distance 1,000.
They say to zero dead-on at 500 yards with the Bar 5. (Bar 5 is the Center Crosshair.)
Easier way: To zero Bar 5 @ 100-yards:
On 11.8x (12 power): make bullet impact 11.87" high @ 100 yards (above Bar 5 - Center Crosshair).
Then this will happen:
At Bar 1, the bullet will impact at 139 yards - (and you can roughly zero at 139 yards with Bar 1, on 11.8x (12 power).
(Bars 1 - 4 are above the center crosshair Bar 5.)
Bar 2 = 218 yards
Bar 3 = 313

Bar 4 = 404
Bar 5 = 500
Bar 6 = 597
Bar 7 = 695
Bar 8 = 796
Bar 9 = 897
Bar 10 = 1,000 yards
This is seemingly unbeatable.

Now, with the Rapid Z 800:
With the M1A, same load, they say to put the power ring at 7.45 power.
*Optimize Power for: Bar No. 8 - Distance 800.
Sight in at 1.77" high @ 100 yards for a 200 yard zero (Center Crosshairs - call it Bar 1).

(All other Bars are below the center crosshairs - Bar 1.)
Watch it fall into place:
At Bar 2 (an unmarked bar), bullet will impact at 295 yards.
Bar 4 = 395 yards
Bar 5 = 495
Bar 6 = 596
Bar 7 = 698
Bar 8 = 800 yards

I know it's not a 1,000 yard reticle - but 'tis rather versatile anyway...

So, I'm deciding on which to choose.
More field of view with the power ring set at 7.45x with the Z 800, than at 11.8x on the Z 1000.
And they say the Z 800 is intended for other calibers; but, look what it does for the .308!


But, if you definitely need it backed-off at the lowest 4.5 power also, then the Z 800 will work for both close-quarter, and long-range work.
At 4.5 power, just use the center crosshairs for 0-300 yards - then for precision: Zoom to 7.45x for 200-800+yards.

Q. What would the Z 1000 do at 4.5 power? - when it is set up for all ranges (100-1000) at 11.8 power?
A. Dead-on at 500-yards ONLY - Center Crosshairs - Bar 5. (Bar 5 impacts 11.87" high @ 100 yards on 11.8x. -Would need to test point of impact of Bars 1-4 on 4.5x ).


Maybe we can't have our convenient cake, and eat it too.

So, for me, THE DECISION IS: Z 800 !

The Z 800 is more traditional and more useful under stress. Your short-range field of view (FOV) and accuracy (at 4.5 power) could mean everything.
I'd stress more over the up-close and personal - than sweat the remaining 200 yards down range to the magic 1,000 marker.

And, I could live with the Z 800 at 7.45x to be sure for 0-800+yards. -You know what it's gonna do on 4.5x and 7.45x before you ever mount the scope!


With the Z 800, at ANY needed magnification (4.5x - 14x), with the center crosshairs, the bullet will still impact 1.77" high @ 100-yards, and will still be absolute bullseye at 200-yards!

But, for a dedicated Long Range benchrest set-up - or if you don't mind having it at 11.8 power all of the time, the Z 1000 bullseyes scratches the 100 to 1,000-yard itch.

G-gear
chris_59@q.com

You can check-out their reticles here:
Zeiss Rapid Z 1000
Zeiss | 4.5-14x50 AO MC Conquest Riflescope | 52 14 90 9973

Zeiss Rapid Z 800
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 800


LRB 7x50 laser rangefinder binoculars
http://www.newcon-optik.com/lrb7x50.html

Unbelievable?

Almost.

http://www.newcon-optik.com/Specs/lrb7x50.pdf




Last edited by G-gear; 03-21-2010 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Updated & Corrected Ballistics Data
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2010, 12:34 PM
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Re: Zeiss Rapid Z 800 & 1000 scopes for M1A (M21) .308 UPDATE

M21 hugh you need to drop the whole ZEISS idea and go with the HORUS HAWK it will do everything your ZEISS will do for less money more accuratley!

I had one mounted on my M1A and it got me past 900 just a bit and you can set it up for you hand load.

It cost 325$ less than a ZEISS they send you the softwere, you can print out a rangecard for your handload and its in the FFP.

If you want to spend a bit more go with the Falcon model its the one the ARMY uses on its M21's and it has enough adjustment to get you past 1000.

Just my 2 cents
Jon



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  #3  
Old 03-14-2010, 02:16 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 78
Re: Zeiss Rapid Z 800 & 1000 scopes for M1A (M21) .308 UPDATE

Thanks for the experienced advice.

Horus Vision : System 5

I checked it out at the above link, and just as I thought, it has the short range bars above the center crosshairs.

I'm kinda bent on getting the Zeiss Rapid Z 800, that has the center crosshairs, then all of the other bars below it.

I will have my scope power ring set to 4.5X always, until I need the precise 200-800-yard setting at 14X.

I think I could live with that better, if not longer.
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  #4  
Old 03-16-2010, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5
Re: Zeiss Rapid Z 800 & 1000 scopes for M1A (M21) .308 UPDATE

I asked a question about this and no one responded. I was seeking confirmation of what you expressed. The 800 seems to make more sense for hunters.

Bill
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