I can see where you’re coming from, but never in a thousand years will you be able to convince me that a customer, who pays top dollar for a specialty product, should be responsible for modifying the scope or developing elaborate computer programs in order to create a firing solution. There is just no excuse for it not being right when it leaves the factory. I’d easily forgive an occasional mishap if it were backed up with a fast, no cost repair, but threatening to sue your customers for demanding that their company hold true to their advertisements is nothing but disgusting.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> I've seen some posts on other forums that are incredibly vicious and destructive in their negativity <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Every kettle has it’s boiling point, and after seven years of defective products, outright lies, ( Such as Premier Reticles patent pending Gen 2 in USO’s catalog without Premier’s authorization ) warning posts from USO’s attorneys, their threats to sue customers who reported their failures first hand, and their suing of highly respected members of this community, and most recently – the not so subtle hint that web boards and those who participate on them ( may be ) their next target, I’d have to say that it’s over due for that pot to boil over!
You reap what you sew. All I can say is that they brought this down upon themselves.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> It is possible to be critical in a supportive way and I would hope that we as a community can move away from the rabid attacks that serve little purpose other than to inflict as much damage as possible and shift instead into positive, healthy criticism. As consumers, we can only benefit from the latter approach. It does not serve our interests to have fewer choices in the marketplace. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps fewer choices that actually do work would be more desirable. If they can’t get the damn things to function properly on a consistent basis, then why the H3ll are they still shipping them? What benefit is there to having another market choice if that choice that is defective? So far as constructive criticism goes, H3ll - I offered to buy one of their scopes providing they actually get them to perform as advertised. Then Nighthawk posted an email reply from Williams warning of “a change on the web after the first of the year”. No change in quality control or engineering or service, just a not so discreet warning that more lawsuits are immanent. Tell me, how can we “work with” that mindset?
Here is another way of looking at it. Few people will detract from USO about their entire reticle illumination. Often I have heard, if USO can do it, why can’t others do it? But have they done it? By that I mean that perhaps, just perhaps, the reason we don’t see this feature in other scopes is because their engineers have found that such a design would compromise the correct operation of the turrets. (?) I don’t know. But it’s food for thought.
USO bills themselves as a CUSTOM SCOPE MAKER. Now, when I think about custom anything, two principles cross my mind. 1.) Expensive ( Ok, USO has that covered ) 2.) Quality above and beyond what could be produced from a mass production facility. - Sorry, USO does not meet this standard. But the insinuation here is criminal. Claim you’re a custom scope maker and charge a custom price. But without alluding to the fact that you may have to devise your own method of attaining a firing solution specific to that and only that scope. … Gee, what a great deal over their competition. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
So far as their being an American made; well they are assembled in America, yes. But with who’s parts? Made on who’s machines? With raw materials shipped in from where? So basically, they are just as “America” as Leupold or Nightforce. Again, given the choice of a defective product versus a well working one, location of assembly is irrelevant, at least to me.
As I pointed out earlier, the problems with USO are not new. They have had years to correct them. But instead of fixing what’s wrong, what do they do? Announce their new expanded product line!!!
That begs the question, how many more years should we give them and what is the number of lawsuits that we in this community should deem as “acceptable”?
So far as Vicious & destructive comments from many members of this community against USO, well, where there’s smoke - there’s fire.
Nighthawk (Leupold LRT Thread) <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> posted 12-27-2003 02:03 AM
I was wondering how well the Leupold Vari-X III 6.5-20x50mm scope or the new VXIII would be able to see a deer at 1500 yards. Anyone have an answer? Need a backup just in case I get shafted with the SN-9 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now I've heard everything!
Nighthawk, post pics of you with your rifles and scope and I'll send you $100 bucks!
Pic has to have you holding sign with date and time and must be posted within 12 hours.
Make it $125, to cover the cost of 1 hour photo and disposable camera after you say you don't have a digital camera...
Big John, I understand where your coming from and you are not wrong. There is no reason why you or anybody else should spend that kind of money and be less than completely satisfied. By the same token, I guess maybe I have a greater threshold of pain. I really don't mind that the scope isn't perfect - I have faith that it will be and that the problems will be solved in a reasonable amount of time. I can put up with little problems here and there because overall, I am extremely satisfied with the scopes I have purchased. What I object to is the attack without a purpose. Honest criticism is never out of line. Both the consumers and the manufacturer need to see it.
Regarding the litigation, I agree it isn't good customer or public relations. On the other hand, I think some of the more mindless attacks on the company have been grossly unfair and a source of concern to the company.
I will say this - I am gratified that this particular thread has been positive, non-personal and objective and for that I think we owe ourselves a drink (I'm buying.) Here's to ya.
DANTEC, the caliber is a .338 Lapua. John M, calm down a little bit would ya. I asked a question about a Leupold scope for something I don't really plan on starting for many months. I figured I would ask because it was on my mind at the time. I would post some pictures if not for these reasons, no barrel for rifle, don't know how to post pictures anyway, don't know how to use the scanner, don't care to until I actually get a barrel. And yes there will be a sign of me holding a sign with the time and date so you might quit thinking all is do it lie. Also I do have a digital camera that my dad bought a year and a half ago. Please excuse my sarcasm. John, I once recall a topic that we all had over a year ago and you said something about wiping the slate clean between us, is that possible for a second time?
[ 12-28-2003: Message edited by: Nighthawk ]
a whisper from this little friend of mine goes a lot way.
And you get 3 month of delivery time on a 338 cal barrel ?
If you spend time to read posts on this forum 338 LM is not the best for real long range shooting , that a military caliber with 1200 yards effective range and surely not a low cost / hight preformance caliber , far better to use a 300 Ultra or a good 300 Win mag to punch paper
and really not a caliber for beginer shotter who need to shoot a lot and practice to learn a lot
If you really shoot a 338 LM or plan to shoot a 338 lm what the need of a SN9 scope with 250 Moa because max usefull range ( subsonic ) is just over 1 miles and 100 moa scope on 20 moa base is far enought for 1 miles .