I'm just kind of thinking like John, maybe the consistancy lies in the production procedures being consistant, and this is where NF and others that produce specific models have an edge. Mass production in this thread leads one to think quality control is less than adequate or something, when it might be that it's the other way around and that USO is looking at a new designed scope at every turn with potential new problems they just doesn't recognize yet??
For the price I see that some pay for the USO's, I'd guess they could afford to mount the scope and test it thuroughly to make sure it works as it should.
I've haven't had a problem with mounting a scope yet, so what problems were you guys having exactly? Rings too short are about all I've had to deal with. On a Ruger of mine, it uses a set ring distance and this pretty well dictates what tubes I could, or couldn't use.
A 35mm tube, custom reticle, and wider range of power appeals to me a little, I'd just have to look through one of the scopes to see if it's worth the price they want tho. Right now, I know noone that has one around here, so I'll wait till then at least. Issues of poor CS and QC will have to have been resolved for some time before I'd buy tho.
Right now, NF has everything I need in the NXS model, at a standard price, which has been thuroughly tested, they have great service, so it's not like I'm suffering too bad. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> There is no doubt that Dantec is angry. But why shouldn't he be? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's hard to tell exactly what went wrong, but he reminds me of someone who bought a lemon for a car and wants to tell anyone who will listen what junk Fords or Chevys or whatever are. He is an unhappy consumer. O.K, I get that. So what? Unless he has something constructive to add, simply repeating how he got screwed, how the product is junk, how customer service is in the toilet, he is adding little to the conversation other than pages. Frankly, it's boring after a while.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> How much more can USO give me compared to a NF for $1200? Is the glass better? are the turrets better? more repeatable? is the NF not durable enough?
The answers are: probably, probably, probably, depends upon the use. The fact is that you will remain unconvinced until you compare the two side by side. Take both scopes and peer into some deep shadows. You may be surprised how much better one scope can see into dark areas over the other. Check the resolution with the US Airforce chart I mentioned lo these many pages ago. Pound a two-penny nail into a 2X4 with your NF and a USO and see which one loses zero.
You can spend all day demanding justifications for one scope over another, but until you get your hands on both and check them out, the explanations given to you won't mean a whole lot.
USO scopes have been problem children for at least 5 years. The problems just won’t go away, yet they charge 2 - 3 times more then everybody else. Run a search on our forums (Sniper's Paradise Forums) and you will find lots of people that have learned about USO the hard way. You won't serach long before you have a handfull of threads.
People slept peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stood ready to do violence on their behalf. -- George Orwell
We honor and support those men and women who stand ready to do violence on behalf of the United States.
Rather than ask if USO is better - ask yourself what your needs are. If you need glass for a mid range gun like a .308, don't plan on shooting past 1K or so, and like cross hairs or a std mil-dot reticle, then USO is not for you - there are dozens of excellent choices that are cheaper and will do the job you need quite nicely.
If you are shooting a .50 BMG, .408 wildcat, long range hot rod .338 wildcat, etc. at 2K yards, in varying light and weather conditions, want more than 150 MOA of elevation adjustment, etc. then USO is for you, because no one else currently offers stuff like this.
Its unfair to say "Don't say its a truly custom scope" as an argument...because that's what you are paying for. Its like saying you can't make the argument that the Ferrari is faster than the Porsche 911, but tell me which one is the better sports car.
I would love for NF to open up their product line or a custom shop for larger scopes - they would definitely give USO a run for their money and IMHO competition in the marketplace is a good thing for the consumer. Right now, USO really doesn't have a serious competitor in the ultra-long range scope market. 35 or 40mm NXS with 58mm obj, 200 - 225 MOA adjustment would be sweet!
I think you guys hit the nail on the head rearding the consistency of mass production vs. crafting a custom item. USO has so many options that hey are bound to miss something or let it fall through the cracks, and their customers may order something they really didn't want or need, or didn't make sense - i.e. a 40mm tube scope with EREK - why go with a tube with 200MOA capability and then limit it with a 45MOA turret? USO builds it they way you asked for it.
Is the USO glass better? To my eyes it is, and there is a big difference between the USO ultra hi-res lenses and NF glass if you are using an add-on device to turn your day scope into a nightscope. This is a personal judgement for every user.
Are the turrets better? They work the same for me, and my USO and NXS scopes both track well - NF's biggest weakness is that they need FFP reticles rather than RFP. My zero does shift slightly while moving through the power range on my NXS. Not enough to freak out - .23 MOA at 100 yds, but its there and consistent. My FFP USO has no zero shift - but you have be used to seeing the reticle vary with the magnification. I prefer this, but its a personal choice for all users.
Do you really think that USO let a faulty scope go out their door on pupose because thay are a dishonorable company? I can blame human error, misunderstandings, etc, but have a hard time swallowing that they are intentionally putting faulty goods out the door, thinking that their customer's will never find out. USO has acted honorably with me and provided acceptable customer service - to me. Other folks may have their own horror stories, but for every one of those there is a customer who had a great experience and loves their scope.
The question I have for you, is have you ever owner or extensively used an USO scope? You wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> posted 12-09-2003 10:47 AM
I own 2 NXS,s, have owned many Leupolds and Tasco SS...NXS is a great scope.
My military background taught me that I would be better off with people who act with Honor. I WILL NOT BUY ANY PRODUCT FROM A COMPANY THAT HAS ACTED DISHONORABLE.
If you haven't then you are slamming a product due to the experiences of others - rather than have the benefit of personally experiencing both items and making an educated judgement.
As far as your whole honor speech goes...USO dealt honorably with me. We can all read the various posts from the lawsuit stuff and read what we want into them. However, we will never truly know everything of what was said, when, to whom, etc. Relationships (both business and professional) change over time and for a number of reasons. Is it honorable for you to pass judgement over someone when you aren't privy to all of the facts and weren't involved in the dispute?
As far as the honorable company thing goes - from where do you buy your gas for your car? Do you avoid exxon because they manipulated the courts and got away with a pittance for the damage the Exxon Valdiz spill caused to Alaska? How about union carbide and their payoff to the surviving family members in Bhopal? Do you own stocks in fortune 500 companies? What about Enron, Citibank, Arthur Andersen, Tyco, etc, etc. Have you boycotted all of corporate america after the recent financial scandals? Men act dishonorably, but IMHO an entire company should not be judged for the poor behavior of a small number of its employees (unless its a one man outfit).
IMHO this thread has run its course - the topic is one that has been debated to death here and in other forums. In the end, only you can judge if USO is worth the cost. My recommendation is to try them out if you can and then make an educated judgement, rather than reply on posts from the internet. I own both USO and NF, and they both are great for their intended purpose. YMMV.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> have you ever owner or extensively used an USO scope <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-I have extensively tested older USO scopes and they had major flaws in the tracking system. To this day, they still have a flaw in the tracking systems.
- I have seen older USO scopes that had the same tracking errors.
- About 2 weeks ago I got to witness a USO with almost no time on it, stop tracking and go tits up.
- The same owner had another USO scope hit a “flat spot” in the elevation tracking about a week earlier.
- I got word from a USO fan that he had just mounted his new USO scope and the turret adjustments were not as prescribed and the unit did not track properly.
- About two months ago I witnessed the front end of a USO scope break off when the user tried a “drop test” from waist high.
- Three months ago I helped mount 6 new USO scope for a military unit, and within two days, two of those scopes were losing zero. Not sure if they would track right because they had the Horus reticle and the turrets were only used to correct the wandering zeros.
I have never had a USO scope in my hands that stood up and performed correctly. This has been an ongoing problem since I started testing them in 1999.
I am reading something here about a custom scope from a true custom shop “might slip through the cracks.” What heck is that? If I pay $2000+ for a scope, then it better be right when it arrives at my door. For 2-3x the money, any real custom shop better make sure that the product was right. That is, if it was a REAL custom shop. I mean after all, that would be like me taking my car to a custom racing shop, then when I get the car back, its missing two out of eight pistons! Why bother?!?