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uso or nf

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Unread 12-21-2003, 11:54 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 429
Re: uso or nf

DMCI, I'm glad I just read that post of yours, sometimes I think people jump to the conclusion that something is broken with it isn't working rather than trying to figure out if there might be another thing effecting it. I won't say more here because I always seem to piss someone off. I saw that one AR you posted above. Looks pretty cool. Can I have it?? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] heh heh heh That looks like a pretty big scope to be mounting on a .308 don't you think? Or are you just trying to be able to shoot the hairs off a flies ass at a half a mile? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Got any more stories about your USO's?
a whisper from this little friend of mine goes a lot way.
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Unread 12-22-2003, 12:12 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 2,539
Re: uso or nf

The thing I don't understand fully, is what custom items does USO offer I can't get on any other scope?

Wide variety of Reticles are offered in most any scope line. Premier does custom ones, power, and turret modifications as well.

If I want a 35 mm tube, 55 mm obj, 5-35x magnification, side focus, adjustable intensity lighted reticle with 1 MOA hash marks on the vertical and horzontal posts, internal bubble level and cosine indicator viewable through ocular, tritium click marks and MOA numbers with built in 270 degree shrouds around turrets, 2nd focal plane reticle, camo coated, two week turn around and free repair for life, buy back program if not 100% satisfied, will they build it, and stand by it as fully tested and guaranteed?

NF makes a really well made, and tested scope, take your pick of them. They will swap reticles for you, all reticles are lighted and have a wide variety to choose from, plenty of vertical and windage adjustment, especially with tapered bases, very positive clicks, very readable scales on turrets, side focus and sunshade.

Now what is my 5.5-22x56 NF R2 missing USO might offer, and for how much more will it cost than the $1200 these go for?

I had found something unexpected with my NF right after I got it, Jeff told me to send it into him to look at. LESS than 48hrs after "I" shipped it, my scope was back here in ALASKA, now with a full 99 MOA of vertical adjustment and an explanation to why it only had 89 MOA when I got it. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

If anyone doesn't use or hasn't used, or even doesn't like NF, you still gotta be amazed with the customer service they obviously see as priority numero uno!! [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Just my 2 cents... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Brent Moffitt
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Unread 12-22-2003, 01:56 AM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: California
Posts: 68
Re: uso or nf


As far as I know JBW is running the show...

JBW3 has been trying to do some customer service and get some positive light on USO.

If JBW3 now runs the show, Then someone needs to state this publically and the situation would change alot.

It is funny how I have made numerous posts on the USO subject, but not one of the US Optic Flag Wavers have challenged anything that I have said. They go after Dantec.

Then state were they have made mistakes, and then COME TO LEAPING CONCLUSION that all the other failures must have been user mistakes...


For every 1000 pat on the backs for success, 1 OWE **** will be remembered. MISTAKES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THIS BUSINESS. Either you make a quality product or you dont. Either you stand behind your product or you dont.


For Every Scope you sell, you are loosing 10 orders to the competition because of TOPIC like this.


CONSUMERS WILL EVENTUALLY FORGET. The OWE SHITS go away...and the money starts rolling in.

But the more your customers try to defend you the more the OWE SHITS are talked about. Your Reputation goes in the tank.

Just how important is a REPUTATION in this business. Were do you rank? What have you done to correct this.


[ 12-22-2003: Message edited by: xring01 ]
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Unread 12-22-2003, 04:07 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington State
Posts: 120
Re: uso or nf

Originally posted by NIGHTHAWK: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> heh heh heh That looks like a pretty big scope to be mounting on a .308 don't you think? Or are you just trying to be able to shoot the hairs off a flies ass at a half a mile? Got any more stories about your USO's?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some guys in my area are talking about Tactical Matches at 600 yards. 20 Rounds in 20 minutes. NRA targets (Big Bullseyes, etc.) Since I am basically lazy, I am thinking this combination would be perfect for that.

I think I bought my 6-30x58 SN-3 in about 1992 or so. So I have been working with John Sr. for a little over 10 years.

More stories? Are you kidding. That is half the fun of playing with those babies. Here is the rest of the story without the mounting problems:

Yesterday, I took the AR-10/SN-3 combination to the range and shot up the equivalent of one and a half boxes of ammo. I used my 168 Grain loads that use Rem 9 1/2 primer and 4985. Goal was to get it on the paper. My old collimator is in the trash. I will not mention the brand.

There had been some concern on my part about muzzle blast from the AR-10's compensator. I shot both at 50 yards and 100 yards with a number of different people next to me. I asked as many of them as I could if the muzzle blast bothered them. To a man(women), no one seemed offended. Interestingly the guy with the blast had a muzzle break on a single shot pistol, which appeared to be something like a .243. It's blast almost took your head off.

I got to the range about 3:00. They operate on a 15 and 10 minute cycle. 15 minutes of shooting and then 10 minutes of cease fire so you can "go down range to check or change your target". I started at 50 yards to get on the paper, walked the rounds into the center and then moved to the 100 yard range. Well, by the time I had got everything centered at 100, the range had grown quiet, and I had my lit reticle turned on just for fun.

Well, anyway I turned around and there was about five people standing behind me. "What kind of scope is that?"

Well, it turns out that everyone else had stopped shooting about 20 minutes before because it was too dark for them to see their targets, but I had continued to shoot with the assistance of the 44/58mm USO objective and the lit reticle. In the process of everyone putting away their stuff the range master had turned the overhead lights on in the shooting area, and that was the reason I had stopped shooting.

That episode tickled me no end on the way home. By the way, to report my group sizes would seem like bragging, so I will desist. I was pleased.

Here is one I wrote entitled: PDs at Winner, SD." My last years trip to SD.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> “Winner, South Dakota, A drinking town with a pheasant problem!”…. and does it ever. First trip down highway 183 and one of the darn things tried to push me off the road. He would have too, except the pheasant changed its mind at the last second and veered back off the road. The town has the biggest JOHN DEERE dealership that I have ever seen along with an excellent pharmacy with a built in FFL and license agency. I won’t even mention the excellent food at the VFW and of course, the very friendly people there in the town. The weather was more than just wind in Winner, where in Saturday night were treated to a spectacular lightning show, with lightning crossing between clouds and hitting the ground several miles to the East. Luckily, the golf ball sized hailstones and hurricane force winds managed to miss us as well!

With a total of 54 shooters in 5 flights, we went out to the field where a steady fifteen to eighteen mph crossing wind and cooperative prairie dogs made for an interesting couple of days. The wind was so strong that in opening the vehicle door, the cover off the Styrofoam cooler was launched out the door and was half a mile away before we even saw it leave. However, using the excellent Horus ballistics program along with the Kestrel 4000 wind and weather meter provided me with a firing solution for the 100-grain Sierra varmint bullet that worked out to about 300 yards. It turned out that the solution was for 3.2 moa of Windage, so this being about .8 or so of a mil, I put the leading edge of the dot on the PD and presto, no PD. My .260 custom rifle used the F210M primer and 41.5 of H4895. The bullet had an instrumental velocity of 3270fps and a Standard deviation of 9.5.

This system worked so well that when Brian, a new hunting partner tried it, he killed three PDs with four shots and apparently became bored with the whole process. Brian was also shooting his little Savage .17HMR bolt gun and managed to do a very competent job with it. That is certainly a remarkable little caliber and rifle.

It was funny in one case a Dog got a little confused about the difference between cover and concealment. Putting only his head, eye and nose above the dirt mount at about 200 yards. Since he had no idea that I was observing this whole scenario through the 30X USO variable, he felt very safe. However, since I did know the difference, I aimed for his predicted center of mass. The guide seeing this through his binoculars, said: “You shot right through the dirt and nailed him”. Frankly, I don’t know who was more surprised, the PD or the guide. The PD was not available for comment.

The wind limited my rifle’s effective range to a little less than three hundred yards. This compared to productive shots at nearly 700 yards with this same recipe in Montana where the winds were under 10 mph. Experience with the 139 Lapua Scenar bullet with a much higher BC demonstrates to me that the 100 grain HP is the limiting factor. Thankfully, with the Horus system, I was not reduced to guessing about the wind as would have otherwise have been the case. Another secret about shooting in the wind is the use of a Jewell trigger, which when set at about one pound for a consistent break, allowed for consistent trigger control.

I recall that the altimeter was over 3000 feet as compared to my home range at 700 and the humidity was somewhat different. This data was input to the ballistics model to develop this firing solution. Turns out that having faith in one’s instruments as in flying paid dividends big time.

As usual, the chance to meet new friends and renew acquaintances with old ones was a big part of the fun. While the food didn’t really benefit my waste line, it added considerably to the enjoyment and was singularly remarkable.

The return trip to Seattle included stops at Wall Drug and the Custer Monument. Both definitely worth the visit and good places to rest en-route.

[ 12-22-2003: Message edited by: DMCI ]
People slept peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stood ready to do violence on their behalf. -- George Orwell
We honor and support those men and women who stand ready to do violence on behalf of the United States.
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Unread 12-22-2003, 04:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington State
Posts: 120
Re: uso or nf

Originally posted by BRENT: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>The thing I don't understand fully, is what custom items does USO offer I can't get on any other scope? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It's a funny kind of thing. There are a lot of fine scopes on the market, and there are suppliers with aftermarket retrofits, reticles, mounts, you name it.

But just like many people that buy Savage 110 rifles and are perfectly happy, people buy standard scopes and mounts. No disrespect to Savage, who build a very competent rifle.

But once you have had the opportunity to work with a custom builder and get exactly what you want for a particular application, and have a chance to personally push the leading edge of the technology, there is nothing like it.

DAN TEC makes an excellent point when he criticizes my application of the SN-3 6-30x58 Varmint scope. Is that too much scope for that application? Yeah, well, it probably is. It was the first USO I bought and it was a learning experience. But I have had a lot of fun with it shooting PDs at ridiculous ranges.

It's sort of like NASA in a way. You are playing with advanced technology that sometimes has problems, and it is expensive. But I am 55 years old and have been shooting for nearly 40 years. I find this stuff to be the best I have ever handled. What other people think based on their personal experiences is up to them.

[ 12-22-2003: Message edited by: DMCI ]
People slept peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stood ready to do violence on their behalf. -- George Orwell
We honor and support those men and women who stand ready to do violence on behalf of the United States.
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Unread 12-22-2003, 05:20 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: France
Posts: 390
Re: uso or nf


you write

DAN TEC's big problem with USO, however appears to be the result of some business relationship issues between a Salesman and his principal and nothing whatever to do with product quality. What a novel situation that is!


the turret cap of lighting reticule ( titanium finish ) have a thread ( out of the box ) out of specs and loose that NORMAL on a 3000 USD and more scope ? specialy after 1.5 year of delivery time

delivery a scope titanium finish main tube order with titanium rings with regular black light alloy finish
that NORMAL ?

Delivery a ST10 with faulty turret or reticule straight out of the box
That Normal ?

Never delivery a SN9
THAT normal ?

I agrre without that surely a relation ship problem but sure a NOquality and customer servive problem too

and that very easy to send Noquality stuff oversea to customer after to have get the money by this way customer and what can do the customer with faulty scope out of box ???
loose time
need to pay costly UPS cost with insurance rate to send back the scope without any garanty
and whish that any politic problem appear between France and USA ....

that not really a serious way you are happy with USO that great BUT I am not happy at ALL to have loose a lot of money in a unserious company

last question : where is the ex Dr Williams does that the new JBW3 man ? or does Dr Williams have disappear ......strange to change of name isn it .

good shooting

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Unread 12-22-2003, 07:15 AM
SCL SCL is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bogota, Colombia
Posts: 69
Re: uso or nf

USO offers tube sizes greater than the standard 30mm or 34mm, objectives out to 80mm, the capability (although it is costly) to design your own reticle), choice of reticle in front or rear focal plane, internal or external adjustments up to the circa 300MOA adjustment range, options for external finish of the scope, etc. Choose what options you want or need and they will build it for you if its physically possible.

No one else does this - no one. Are scopes like this needed by the avarage shooter - no way whatsoever. Are they needed by some shooters, particularly the ultra long range lunatics? Absolutely.

Try purchasing a 50mm tubed NXS (or S&B or zeiss or...you get the idea) with 80mm objective - you can't. The mass production guys offer a wide selection of fixed products of what they think most shooters will need or want. Loopy, NF, et al have a diverse product line and cover most folks needs at a reasonable cost - however there are some folks who need (or just want) something that offers more MOA, greater magnification, etc. For this small crowd there is USO.

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