Guys, I'm very very new to the concept of Long Range Shooting and need some advice. I have a 300 Win being restocked and accurized and I need to decide on a scope for this. I have been set all along on getting a VX-III in 4.5X14X40 (1-inch tube) with the BC reticle to keep it lightweight and simple. But the more I read on this site, everyone seems to be using turret adjustments rather than relying on the range compensating reticle. I have lately thought about getting this same scope but in the long range model, with the 30 mm tube so I could at least add adjustable turrets to it later as my experience grows. My initial thought with this was to have a 500 yard rifle, which I think either of these scopes would handle, but it seems most people outgrow this in time. I really need some good solid advice on this. :eek:
Alot of good advice already given!
300 WinMag is indeed long range capable and you are right to investigate the proper scope. My first thought is if you get the Lupy VX3 4.5 x 14 x 40 you might want to consider getting the 50 mm obj. lens. On 14 power with the 40 mm objective lens you will only get 2.85 mm light as an exit pupil...a little more light I personally like to have.the 50 mm scope has approx.3.5mm exit pupil. I, too would go with the 30mm tube for the extra minutes of adjustment and the adjustable knobs. Another consideration is that you really can shoot 1000yards with a 10x maximum scope..I have done it repeatedly with a 300 RUM and a 30-338. Last time we went hunting we set up at 1000 yard a 2 ft x 3 ft. steel plates ... I have a Zeiss 6.5 x 20 x 50 and my first hits were done on the lowest power...albeit it IS much easier to do it with higher magnification..( this was done with a .338 Lapua using 300 gr. Sierra HPBT at 2750 FPS)...but I got as many hits with my 30-338 using 210 Bergers at 2875 FPS and it had a 2.5 x 10 x 44 Scope with the Holland reticle...There are several ways to address the turret vs. reticle issue. One is the Holland reticle which has MOA dots on the lower verticle stadia and you can dial the necessary minutes using the elevation turret on any power. Or , if you are on 10 power you can use a combination of the reticle and the turrets...it must be on the highest power to do this because the scope is 2nd focal plane. Another method we have investigated is the custom BDC knob available from a company in SoCal...I had one made and I can't remember the name now, but they are only good for one bullet, one speed and one elevation range...Leupold will also do this on their scopes. One recent example...I was a lasered 435 yards away from a little hog and I had made a MOA chart which told me I needed 4.5 MOA with that load and that zero...I dialed 1.5 MOA and held on the 3MOA dot and got her right through the heart.( this is the beauty of this reticle)..When you get to truly long ranges and say you are shooting a .308 with a 175 HPBT at 2600 FPS with a 100 yard zero at 1000 yards you will need about 39.5 MOA and that is a lot of knob cranking! As was said Nightforce is a tremendous scope with VERY accurate adjustments and worth the price..but if you get the Lupy I would get the 50mm obj lens, the 30mm tube for the knobs and the extra MOA..or you can have Holland put his reticle in your Leupold scope...he also has them in the Schmidt Bender...Just my .02 worth 30-338
και ο μη εχων πωλησατω το ιματιον αυτου και αγορασατω μαχαιραν... Luke 22:36
Jesus said "...and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one" Luke 22:36
Hey mate, I had a leupold VX111 4.5-14x50 and while I cant give you any real faults of the scope I was never really fully trusting of it. It was ok in every element but not great.
The furtherest Ive shot out to is 1000yds with a 270 so I am always dialing in for elevation and wind etc. Your calibre of rifle is well capable of going out well past 500yds and im sure at some stage you will want to.. its a bug.
Ive now got a 5.5-22 NXS nightforce and love it. Just holding it in your hands you can feel its tough and really feel faith in the adjustments once youve tried dialing them up and down. There are other scopes around also like some of the top end zeiss and IOR scopes which im sure are just as good - USO and S&B also.
My advice is if you can save up and buy one of these top end scopes do it - you wont regret it. If you cant afford it wait and hunt around for one second hand one. just my 2cents.
Guess I will throw in a couple points and thoughts.
1. Darrel Hollands ART reticle on the Leupolds with 24 MOA in dots is pretty nice.
2. Kenton Industries makes custom BDC knobs for a variety of scopes.
3. BDC type reticles such as the Holland ART, Nikon BDC, Swarovski/Kahle TDS, Leupl Boone and Crocket and VArminter, MP8, MP2 etc are faster and just as accurate out to about 600-800 yards as clicks.
It does not matter whether you have clicks or a BDC after that distance. Weather, pressure, angle, temp etc play into the picture and both scopes users better have a PDA to get accurate current data otherwise your just clicking in a "miss" many times if you click.
To use BDCs you have to be smarter than the scope, and do a little preplanning and work for your exact POIs and not get confused on multiple aiming points. Not everyone can keep that straight. Now if that is not the case then single aim point and clicks are the way.
The same PDA can give you the new exact POI for the BDC types just as fast, so BDCs are absolutely no less accurate than clicks up to the max range of the BDC points. An exact POI data is the same for a click scope as a BDC, so one is not more accurate than the other up to the limits of the BDC ranges with your cartridge. After that clicks wins for sure.
The 3-9 TDS for example with a 300 WSM and 168 TSX is good for around 700, the 6-18x TDS with 300 Hart, 180 Interbond @ 3200 fps will go to almost 900, no clicking.
Where we hunt big MO whitetails, we can have shots out to 600-800 with only a chance on a deer making a short stop in order to get a shot off. No time to range, dial in a bunch of clicks and then shoot. Range, look at BDC POIs taped on gun and shoot when he stops. This is after we have done new POIs with local conditions and confirm zeros.
Now I have guns set up with the BDC reticles, BDC knobs and lots of MOA and I also have the PDA so I can do any of the above, just depends on which shot presents itself and how fast I have to work and that gives me the absolute best of both worlds. Something to think about.
Hmmm, 4-14 /6-20 Leup with Holland ART or Leupold Varmint reticle and Kenton knobs, or a Swarovski with TDS are both very good combos and the ART can be clicks also.
Last edited by BountyHunter; 02-14-2008 at 01:21 PM.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Zeiss Conquest with the RapidZ 800 or 1000 reticle Welcome to Carl Zeiss Optical, Inc. . I have a 4.5x14x44 with a RapidZ 800 and the optics on it are amazingly clear. They have a calculator on line.
For instance with a 180 gr Accubond at 3100 fps the calculator for the RapidZ 800 says you can set the power on 12.46 and the reticle bars will be correct for 296, 398, 499, 600, 702 and 804 yards (in a perfect world). Change the power variable and the calculator will give the optimum power range. For instance change to a 200 gr Accubond at 2900 fps and the optimum power would be 11.37 for impact at 294, 395, 496, 600, 705 and 812 yards.
The RapidZ 1000 is more complicated and busy but it too is an option.
You are looking at a good scope in the VX-III. I have three of them. Only one has the 1" tube. Your 300WM needs to have the 30mm tube for sure, if you want to reach out there very far. I think the question should be: should it be the 4.5x14x40 or the 6.5x20x40. I like them both.