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Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

 
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  #1  
Old 01-09-2011, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

I'm just beginning to get into long range shooting, and I wanted to lean on the advice of the guys who have been doing it for years. I've just put together a Tikka T3 Varmint .223 with a 6.5-20 50 MM Leupold Mark 4. This past week I shot my first long range targets - out to 500 yards, and it was a hoot.

My current set-up has a MIL reticle, with 1/4 MOA Clicks. I've looked at a few threads on matching systems (MIL MIL / MOA MOA), and I don't understand the reason that's desirable. I'm going to build a drop chart out to 1000 yards (on my next rifle, not the .223), and if i have the correct drop on a chart, what's the virtue of a matched system?

I've seen some guys saying the math is easier when using the reticle to gauge range, but at a rifle range, I'm dealing with known distances. In hunting applications, I'm using a rangefinder beyond 150 yards, so I'm wondering if it really matters? I think it's designed to make it easier without a rangefinder, but like I said, I'm new to this, so I wanted to lean on the forum's membership for advice.

Am I missing something? Incidentally, if you were going to do a matched system, wouldn't MOA MOA be more desirable, since the incremental adjustments of 1/4 MOA are more precise than .1MRAD?

Thanks in advance for you help.
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2011, 11:58 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NW Mt.
Posts: 600
Re: Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

If you are looking at a correction in your reticle (FFP or SFP set to the proper power)
from a previous bullet strike to your poa you can just dial what you see in the scope.
2.4 mils low, dial 2.4 mils. Also the obvious of repeated use in one form or the other makes you
that much more familiar with it. The difference in Mil and Moa turrets is not a concern as far
as accuracy and you really are going to have a time getting used to ranging even with
.1 mil graduations. Takes practice, If you are of a mind I suggest a program call shooter
ready. It will give you all the practice and experience you need to learn the systems and
is sure a whole lot cheaper than buying different scopes. And if you go moa I really suggest going IPHY, USO uses IPHY and I am sure a few others do.
One last thing, if you shoot with a spotter, which I never have, you want his reticle graduated like your scope. Again if he calls a hit .7 mils or
(.5 moa or whatever it is) left you want to be able to just dial in the correction, no math involved.

ShooterReady

(I just ordered the new version for myself, the old one quit when I went to snow leopard in osx, it has a lot of new features as well, it's been 9 or 10 years)

Last edited by Loner; 01-09-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2011, 01:18 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Re: Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

I've seen that program, and I'm glad to hear it's a good product. You also answered my question about its compatibility with Mac OS. I run Snow Leopard also. Also, a stupid question, but what is IPHY? You reference it in conjunction with US Optics. As I said, I'm new to this hobby.

Thanks for your response - it really helps.
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2011, 03:31 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The rifle range, or archery range or behind the computer in Alaska
Posts: 3,515
Re: Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

The nice thing about using matched systems is lets say your drop is 10.75 MOA and you like to use hold overs as much as possible. Lets say you use a NPR2 reticle which is 2 MOA per hold over. You line up on 10 MOA and guess the rest of the .75 or you can dial 3 clicks up and hold right on 10 MOA for a PRECISION shot.

Another good reason is so that you dont have to carry 2 drop cards or charts. Even if you like to dial, there will be times you dont have the time and you will have to hold over. If your card is in MOA, how are you going to hold MILS?

Its not that combo systems cant or dont work, they just are not optimum and lend themselves to more mistakes.

I have two scopes. One is a lupy mark 4 with MOA dials and MIL reticle. The other is an NXS MIL/MIL. I like the matches system MUCH better even though I use the other with much success.

As far as MILS versus MOA, it is a personal preference. I like the MIL system for various reasons. But that is just my preference.

M
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Long range shooting is a process that ends with a result. Once you start to focus on the result (where the shot goes, how big the group is, what your buck will score, what your match score is, what place you are in...) then you loose the capacity to focus on the process.
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  #5  
Old 01-09-2011, 04:33 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NW Mt.
Posts: 600
Re: Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudge View Post
I've seen that program, and I'm glad to hear it's a good product. You also answered my question about its compatibility with Mac OS. I run Snow Leopard also. Also, a stupid question, but what is IPHY? You reference it in conjunction with US Optics. As I said, I'm new to this hobby.

Thanks for your response - it really helps.
Shooters Moa or IPHY, inch per hundred yards is just that 1 inch per 100 yards.
True moa is 1.047 inches per hundred yards. So you have to correct for it being off
in the math. But again with charts and ipods it's not real important. You just need
to know which you have.
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2011, 05:25 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thunder Basin, WY
Posts: 1,788
Re: Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

Hudge,

If you're more comfortable using IPHY (I am) and your scope is supposed to be on 20X for the mils to be correct; then you can turn it down to 18X and the dots will now space 4" per hundred yards instead of 3.6 IPHY. now your dots are in the same thing as your clicks (kinda sorta).

If your clicks are TRUE 1/4 minute, then you'd need the scope on 17X to be 4 TRUE moa between the dots.

Just a suggestion if you want them both in the same thing.
As already mentioned, the big benefit of having them the same is for a 2nd shot if the 1st misses (assuming you can see the impact while looking through the scope, or if you have a spotter).

If you decide to try this, verify on an inch grid at the range. I've seen some scopes that don't zoom or have the exact power that they advertise. Some don't even have the exact spacing that they advertise.

Last edited by SBruce; 01-09-2011 at 06:09 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NW Mt.
Posts: 600
Re: Reason to have a matched scope (MIL MIL / MOA MOA)?

An update on the new shooter ready program.

I installed it last night, here are some changes I really like and one I dislike.
First the option of keyboarding the crosshairs to exactly were you want them, or
fine tune them, has been removed. Tough to drag the crosshairs exactly with the mouse on long range small targets.
A lot of caliber, range, moving target options now. Options of different reticles and
turrets. Hopefully an iphy reticle will be added in the future to the moa option.
The screen can now be drug to full size from the lower rt corner. I used to strain to
see things on the laptop before. The calculator ha been removed but of coarse the
mac has it's own and the old one covered the screen and had to be shut off to see the
whole target after using it.
Scope choices offer 10x 20x and first and second focal planes
The wind flags have been replaced by a kestrel. So weather and atmosphere are now
incorporated. Also a timer can be enabled. Some shots are now a hit or miss as a target
can take cover and not present a second shot.
It's written in/for adobe flash so it has some programing limits I am sure. But overall
you can't learn range finding and doping wind, moving target leads any cheaper or better.
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