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New Nightforce Reticles!

 
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  #1  
Old 10-25-2010, 08:31 PM
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New Nightforce Reticles!

I just heard from Ken Pratt, Technical Support, Customer Service, Nightforce Optics. He told me: "Nightforce is currently projecting the release of the new 1K versions of the Velocity reticle as well as the Horus H-58, around the first of the year. These new reticles will be available on a new scope or also for retrofit if you already own a Nightforce.

The Horus reticle will be available within the F-1 line, NXS 3.5x15x50 F-1 only
The Velocity reticles will be available in the 15X and the 22X optics."
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2010, 09:57 PM
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Re: New Nightforce Reticles!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buano View Post
I just heard from Ken Pratt, Technical Support, Customer Service, Nightforce Optics. He told me: "Nightforce is currently projecting the release of the new 1K versions of the Velocity reticle as well as the Horus H-58, around the first of the year. These new reticles will be available on a new scope or also for retrofit if you already own a Nightforce.

The Horus reticle will be available within the F-1 line, NXS 3.5x15x50 F-1 only
The Velocity reticles will be available in the 15X and the 22X optics."

So how well do these reticles work for a first round hit if say you are shooting at 1k yds. at 1K' elevation with 29 inHg pressure and 60 deg F one day and the next day happen to find yourself at 7K' elevation, 22 inHg and 40 deg F?
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:28 AM
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Re: New Nightforce Reticles!

Like any shooting system, whether a simple cross-hair or a full grid, you need to have a way to know where to hold or adjust. No shooting system is idiot-proof. Ideally you will have ballistics software that can tell you how to adjust your hold for differing conditions. Absent that you need to develop a chart of how to hold in differing conditions. Note: that doesn't change whether adjusting the cross-hairs via the turrets, holding off target (Kentucky windage) or using a grid reticle.

All a grid reticle does is allow you to know where to hold without adjusting your turrets. This is an advantage in some hunting situations, as when deciding between targets at different ranges. Our military is now moving to Horus Reticles for just that reason.

In hunting situations most rifles will shoot close enough to the same point of impact out to 500 or 600 yards that the same hold points can be used regardless of barometric pressure, temperature, etc.. Beyond these ranges those variables must be taken into account IN ALL TARGETING SYSTEMS. This makes grid reticles much faster inside the range other variables come into play, and those ranges are where most game is shot.

What ballistic reticles are not: They are not a replacement for learning your ballistics. Sadly, the sales people give exactly that impression.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: New Nightforce Reticles!

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Originally Posted by Buano View Post
What ballistic reticles are not: They are not a replacement for learning your ballistics. Sadly, the sales people give exactly that impression.
And therein lies the rub!

Sans the the 'other' other company's reticle discussion around here.

Sales to to the gullible seem to be the marketing motivation by many.

Oh and by the way, didja know that the word 'gullible' isn't even in the dictionary. No kiddin'!
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2010, 12:59 PM
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Re: New Nightforce Reticles!

According to the Horus website, the H58 is graduated in mils. I didn't know that and was wondering what they based the reticles on.

As you can probably tell, I'm just a bit biased against reticles of this type for exactly the reason that Roy brought up and buano brought up in that latter part of his post above, even though I shoot an NPR1 on an NF. Way too many people thinking that because they have this or that special reticle, they can shoot out to 600 or 1K at a game animal.

What a misconception and shame on some of these companies for marketing the way they do--often not mentioning the devil in the details in terms of time spent training, knowing ballistics and using a ballistics calculator when needed, proper equipment, etc. Longrange hunting is a fine tuned 'system' with a tremendous amount of knowledge of details of that system (most importantly knowing your limits in a given conditions), not just a special reticle.

Most factory rifles are not designed with shooting at 600yds + in mind and some of these reticles make folks think they can do it.

How long could it be until MSNBC does an investigative report on hunters using ballistic reticles (instead of remington)? I'm sure they can find quite a few folks happily using them that don't have much of an idea of ballistics at all.

Sites like this will really educate people to this end if they are willing to spend the time, energy and money to do so. Hopefully they won't be shooting lr if they haven't spent that time, money and energy to understand what is going on to some degree--it's tough enough when you have some understanding.
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  #6  
Old 10-26-2010, 02:36 PM
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Re: New Nightforce Reticles!

Amazingly, it appears WE are all in agreement. Ballistic reticles are not "the problem", people believing that a ballistic reticle is all they need to shoot a muley at 750 yards is THE PROBLEM. Horus used to have a simulator on their website where you can calculate holds for various distances with their reticles & you can see if that's something you might want in your scope. When I tried it I liked it a lot. Others I know have not liked it. To each his own. I believe Nightforce is offering the Velocity 1,000 reticle only because with it they do not have to give Horus a licensing fee & because of marketing done by other scope manufacturers have done for their ballistic reticles. The Velocity 1,000 is still valid, so long as a person knows what ranges the scope demarcations correspond to WITH THEIR RIFLE under actual hunt conditions.

I believe we need a book to hand people, "The Idiot's Guide to Long Range Marksmanship". In it we could summarize what it takes to make a rifle accurate beyond 500 yards & what it takes to reliably hit targets from 600 yards to more than a mile away. In theory long-range marksmanship is not that complicated so long as every variable is removed from the process. Removing those variables is THE issue in long-range marksmanship, and it's why most hunters I know should never shoot at game more than 200 yards away.

When I try to explain long range hunting to a novice it's fairly easy to show bullet drop at various distances & under various conditions. What's hard to show is the effect of wind since the wind can only be estimated over this distance & can even be blowing in opposite directions along the bullet path. Once they get a basic understanding of wind doping they have newfound respect for long-range marksmanship. At that point most know they are not interested in learning what they would need to learn and spending what they would need to spend for long range marksmanship. A few, those with our mental health issues, are intrigued by the challenge & want to learn to do it right. Those we welcome with open arms!
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  #7  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:27 PM
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Re: New Nightforce Reticles!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buano View Post
Amazingly, it appears WE are all in agreement. Ballistic reticles are not "the problem"
Well stated.

This is a thread that is going unusually very well!

What about this? A range finder with environmental inputs plus automatic angle correction capability which reads out in yards to be used in concert with the ballistic turrets or reticle? Or a drop chart with the same inputs included in the calcs?

Would not all disagreements/arguments be taken away?
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