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"long range" scope challenge. What do you use

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  #15  
Unread 07-16-2009, 05:51 PM
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Re: "long range" scope challenge. What do you use

Unless this is a 'best glass' contest, I'd submit that there is more to long range shooting than gadgetry(reticles) and glass.

I prefer 8.5x25 Mk4s with simple med-fine crosshairs, M1 field turrets, and alumina flip-ups.
They are accurate as hell,, light,, low,, and reasonably priced.

I don't screw around trying to range with scopes.
I don't screw around trying to solve & holdover with scopes.
There are far better solutions avilable for these things, and better glass ain't gonna do squat about it.

Use the right tools, dial, and shoot.
With this, a Mk4 will be way more accurate than your gun, at any range.
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  #16  
Unread 07-16-2009, 07:46 PM
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Re: "long range" scope challenge. What do you use

With all due respect to Mikecr, the more options you give yourself the more situations you will be able to take advantage of. And if you spend much time hunting, you will run into situations where a qucik holdover is the only shot you have or your RF craps out on you. A good reticle can be an invaluable tool in the field.

I'm not going to say which is the best scope because I dont know. I will say the NF NSX is well worth the money. It is more scope than I need and in the geographic and enviromental condititions I hunt in, I wouldn't want any less of a scope. With my 4.5-22x50, I can clearly see game in the darkest "legal" light hunting conditions set on full 22 power. If you want to shoot in moonlight, it will do that on the lower power, but I dont have the need to do that. The NSX is about as close to 100% field reliable as a scope will get. They have been well proven in combat including functioning with bullet holes in them.

No need for me to make a list or compare. I have what I need and want and the only second scope I'll be buying is another NF.

-MR
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  #17  
Unread 07-17-2009, 01:19 AM
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Re: "long range" scope challenge. What do you use

Mike cr: I agree with you. I bought into the nightforce hype and I agree it's a great scope. Is it worth the now $500.00 more than my mark 4? No way. Maybe my 29 year old eyes are failing me but me and my hunting partners all agree that they can't tell the difference between glass quality in my scopes. Most of my partners had nightforce but are older and can't see the fine reticles provide by nightforce. To me they seem varmint like. Yes they are illuminated but I won't use that in the middle of the day targe shooting. Also there lens cap sucks. The butler creeks don't work worth the crap in the North idaho brush. Everytime I turn around one is open and the lens is exposed.My nxs has turned into a glorified bench scope. Yes I could run it over with a tank and it would survive. I don't plan to however. The mark 4 has proved itself in the military and with hunters and my next purchase will be another mark 4. The best flip ups ever and they are very repeatable. Yes everybody makes a lemon: One of my buddies from Spokane bought a Nxs a few months ago with a huge spec in the inside glass. Another one of my buddies from Nevad had a mark 4 that wouldn't track. He sent it in and usually they fix it. Leupold sent him a new one and it took five days! But to be fair Nightforce had a great turn around also. IMO there is no better glass than Swaro or S&B and if your going to step up that's where I's be looking. I used a pmII last year and tried as hard as I could not to give it back. It's a real piece of work and imo neither the nightforce or the mark 4 are in the same class.
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  #18  
Unread 07-17-2009, 09:55 AM
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Re: "long range" scope challenge. What do you use

I have 2 NXS, and 2 Mk4s at the moment.
- There is absolutely zero difference in glass quality between them. Neither anywhere close to european glass. Dead last on my list of importance..
- The eypiece rotates with NF scopes making flip-up operation a PIA. This disqualifies NF for field use -for me. I've learned the hard way that the only way to keep glass clean in the field is to keep it covered. But you can't be fiddling with bad covers or capped turret adjustments out there. It don't work well.
- The NF scopes are nearly a pound too heavy IMO and the 56mm scopes must be mounted higher than I like.
I reserve NF to my competiton guns because all I need there, is a resonable reticle subtension, reliable POA and sufficient power. One needed lens rebedding due to POA shifting, and NF turnaround on this was amazing. As good or even better than Leupold's service.

I don't have a problem with NXS scopes, they just aren't as good as Mk4s -overall. Though I would slow down only to urinate on a NF BR model..

I've thought about better glass. It's about all thats left with all else covered by Mk4s. Problem is, nobody covers all the Mk4s specs AND have better glass..
I've begged Leupold to offer a 'Mk5' out of the custom shop with ED matched lenses, and a range calibrated micrometer side focus. No luck yet.
Someone mentioned March scopes. But I wonder if they know anything about scopes actually used in the field. They started with a BR scope based on BR shooter input. They didn't, and wouldn't have done it on their own.
So who's telling them how to make hunting scopes? Do they hunt?

I've looked at various european scopes, and I don't really care about cost.
Usually there is a disqualifier like FFP, or metric, or weight, pysical size, limited options, huge reticle subtension, or other oddities(like capped turrets). Not one betters a Mk4 overall.

I guess my scopes must be more practical, than tactical.
I need a Mk5...................
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  #19  
Unread 07-17-2009, 09:59 AM
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Re: "long range" scope challenge. What do you use

Hi

My best combo is a Rem mod 700 with a 7mm STW barrel on, with a Zeiss 6-24x56 reticle 43, thes is a deadly combination for anything but the largest Africa games.
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  #20  
Unread 07-17-2009, 10:48 AM
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Re: "long range" scope challenge. What do you use

Mike cr: Wow you basically hit the nail on the head for me. I feel the same thoughts.
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  #21  
Unread 07-17-2009, 10:19 PM
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Re: "long range" scope challenge. What do you use

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
I have 2 NXS, and 2 Mk4s at the moment.
- There is absolutely zero difference in glass quality between them. Neither anywhere close to european glass. Dead last on my list of importance..
- The eypiece rotates with NF scopes making flip-up operation a PIA. This disqualifies NF for field use -for me. I've learned the hard way that the only way to keep glass clean in the field is to keep it covered. But you can't be fiddling with bad covers or capped turret adjustments out there. It don't work well.
- The NF scopes are nearly a pound too heavy IMO and the 56mm scopes must be mounted higher than I like.
I reserve NF to my competiton guns because all I need there, is a resonable reticle subtension, reliable POA and sufficient power. One needed lens rebedding due to POA shifting, and NF turnaround on this was amazing. As good or even better than Leupold's service.

I don't have a problem with NXS scopes, they just aren't as good as Mk4s -overall. Though I would slow down only to urinate on a NF BR model..

I've thought about better glass. It's about all thats left with all else covered by Mk4s. Problem is, nobody covers all the Mk4s specs AND have better glass..
I've begged Leupold to offer a 'Mk5' out of the custom shop with ED matched lenses, and a range calibrated micrometer side focus. No luck yet.
Someone mentioned March scopes. But I wonder if they know anything about scopes actually used in the field. They started with a BR scope based on BR shooter input. They didn't, and wouldn't have done it on their own.
So who's telling them how to make hunting scopes? Do they hunt?

I've looked at various european scopes, and I don't really care about cost.
Usually there is a disqualifier like FFP, or metric, or weight, pysical size, limited options, huge reticle subtension, or other oddities(like capped turrets). Not one betters a Mk4 overall.

I guess my scopes must be more practical, than tactical.
I need a Mk5...................
I guess we all have our preferences in what we like in a scope. I'm not trying at all the pick a fight with you but I have very, very rarely heard anyone say that a Leupy was better than a NF. A few might say they are better "for the $$$", and that would only be a few.

I have never used a Leupy so let me ask you a few quetions about them.

If you dial in 20 MOA of elevation at 1000 yds. do they move 20 MOA exactley, or do they move 19.2 MOA?

Do they track reliably and always return to the same zero?

Will they do the above perfectly in 10 years... 20 years... 30 years?

Do they operate the same in -30 temps as they do in 90?

If your rifle and Mk4 took a tumble down a rock slide, would your turrets still work and would your scope still be on zero?

Are the internal workings of the Mk4 built to the same standards as a NF?

Is each scope tested against harsh and extreme enviromental conditions.

In short, are they constructed anywhere near to this standard?

TECHNOLOGY

IMHO, you get what you pay for and with NF you get a little more.

For some people the reticles are too fine. But that's not a problem with the scope, that's a limitation with the person. The reticle is specifically designed that way and is perfect IMO and I am 53 and my eyes aren't quite what they used to be. But I can see the reticle well enough and I like the fact when I draw down on a target @ a 1000 yds it isn't obscured by the reticle. At 500 yds it covers the area about the size of an elks eyeball.

As far as the eye peice moving when the power is adjusted, that just doesn't bother me. I dont use Butler Creek caps because I find them to be a pain. They fall off and flip up too easily on their own. I use the NF bikini cover and that works fine for me.

They are a little heavy, but again, that doesn't bother me. They are extremely rugged and if your horse takes a tumble and rolls over on your rifle and NF, you'll be worrying about the rife and not the NF. For a person who does not hunt in rugged and extreme conditions, a Leupy will probably do fine, as long as the internal workings perform to 100%, 100% of the time.

There are a number of scopes that will get the job done most of the time, but when I'm carrying my NF, it gives me complete confidence.

-MR

Last edited by MontanaRifleman; 07-17-2009 at 10:35 PM.
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