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horrus ltd. scopes

 
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  #1  
Old 12-18-2001, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sask. Canada
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Re: horrus ltd. scopes

This reticle is an extension of one used by Swarovski and Kahles as licensed by a fellow named TD Smith. The TDS reticle only has five range bars and no horizontal hash-marks whereas the Horus (formerly called the Sammut) has at least two configurations with 11 and 14 bars below the crosshair intersection and a varying number of index marks horizontally.

At first glance the reticle appears confusing and too busy but given a chance it will enable consistent long range hits. The computer program that you mention can be downloaded into a Palm pilot unit and will compliment the Horus or a mildot scope for field calculations. You simply fill in a basic info points into a series of screens and end up with hold-offs, leads or come-ups etc. The Palm is operated by tapping its screen on particular locations with a small stylus - this is how you input distance, wind, cartridge, scope data.

I have shot the reticle extensively on rifles ranging from .223 up to the .300 Win. in Schmidt and Bender variable scopes. The system works, the more you use it the more you can do with it once you get over the apparent complexity of the view through your scope. I recall making consistent hits on baseball sized rocks in a nasty wind one day with a .223 Rem. 40X out to 650 lasered yards.

This reticle demands that the user get involved with math and a special ranging process to really get the most from it - you could also say that about mil-dots. It is available in relatively expensive scopes and it best complimented with the computer program and a Palm pilot - more money. If you have a spotter you can quickly get rounds on target - just as long as you can remember which bar and hold-off your previous shot was fired from.

It is not for casual shooters, nor will it replace the mil-dot. It does offer a large number of constant aiming points in the field of view which can be used very accurately if you learn how.

The computer program is called TRAG 1S2 and the TRAG 1S5 for the Palm if anyone is interested. I can see a computer-whizz like Dave King enjoying this stuff a lot. I am a one-button person - on-off - but can force myself to use this techy stuff, particularly if my son is nearby to keep me from self-destruction.

For more info the contact is:
dennis@horusvision.com

What we really need is a scope with a floating dot that sets itself after its computers have taken into account range, wind speed and direction, angles, elevation above sea level, rain, ballistics of the ammo, barrel length, time of day, rifle steadiness, barrel wear, shooter flatulence and the B&C score of the frigging buck.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2001, 10:08 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: horrus ltd. scopes

Ian,
Where can I find the software program that you mentioned for the palm pilot? Does the program work as well to simply display elevation and windage clicks? I ran the software program that you mentioned through the search engines and came up empty.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2001, 12:28 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: tennessee
Posts: 480
horrus ltd. scopes

Just wodering if anybody has any experience or knows anything about them.There recticles look like the Barrett 50cal. sniper scope,ie. chritmas tree style with about 20 different posts going down and about 10 going sideways.It looks pretty complicated but it works well for first round hits out to 1,200 yds for the millitary.They also make a hand held computer thats set up for your rifle, and you punch in the
distance,temp.,wind speed,etc. and it tells you exactly which recticle to use.The things kinda like the 408chyanne tactical system,they say it works great out to over 2000yds. Thanks in advance.

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  #4  
Old 12-22-2001, 01:12 PM
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Location: tennessee
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Re: horrus ltd. scopes

Thank you very much for the info IAN M. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2001, 02:42 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sask. Canada
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Re: horrus ltd. scopes

I believe that you can obtain more info on the TRAG 1S2 program from:
Horus Vision - toll free 866-755-5455 or try the e-mail addresses:
dennis@horusvision.com
wwharris@msn.com

That is the info from the brochure I have.

Hope that works.
ian
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2001, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arco, ID 83213
Posts: 80
Re: horrus ltd. scopes

There is a major problem with all ballistic trajectory predictors,i.e. computers, programs, reticles, that assume a fixed trajectory and only compensating for atmospherics. When shooting to and through transonic in any cartridge the particular characteristics of the ammo in each rifle have to be accounted for.

We are delivering our first versions of the Advanced Ballistic Computer, by CheyTac Associates, to military customers in January. It is extremely sophisticated, accounting for the following factors, muzzle velocity in the particular rifle, twist, muzzle jump, temperature, true barometric pressure, ammo temperature, winds at three distances, slant angle, azimuth and latitude of fire for corealis effect, spin drift(precession), and lead for moving targets. We routinely get first round hits on mansized targets to transonic with nonbalanced projectiles and first round hits through transonic with balanced projectiles. For the .408 that means 2500 yds., but we have also used it in .308 Win., 300 Win. Mag., 338 Lapua, and 50 BMG with multiple military and civilian loads in each. At those distances you have to account for all errors and cannot discount anything. Fifty fps. difference in muzzle velocity from one gun to another or one lot of ammo to another means 30 inches of vertical and 5-10 inches of horizontal at 2000 yds. You have to know what your muzzle velocity is at the air tempurature, gun temperature, and ammo tempurature you are shooting. Fixed formulas are worthless as various powders, bullets, and barrel steels react differently.

It is not possible to account for all these variables in a fixed reticle. It is very difficult to account for all of these variables even with a sophisticated computer and real time atmospheric data collection. Most painfully difficult of all, the program has to be adjusted and customized for each shooter, with his gun and load if you expect first round hits to and past transonic and flight times past 2.5 seconds. (For practical terms this does not include the .308 Win. as it does not exceed 2.5 second flight times) For ranges to 1200 yds. fixed reticles can be very effective and fast for someone who is trained and practiced with that reticle and his rifle.

For the record, you do not have to be a world class shot to be on target past 2000 yds. A very good shot will do. You do have to have world class equipment and a very detailed understanding of the equipment and ballistics to be accurate out there. There are no shortcuts when first rounds hits are the criteria.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2001, 11:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 230
Re: horrus ltd. scopes

Thanks for the info Ian. I was originally trying to figure out how I was going to put several drop tables into my palm pilot with corrections for angle and temperature but hopefully this will save a bunch of work.
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