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Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

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  #8  
Unread 05-26-2013, 01:26 PM
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Re: Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

Are they the same price? It costs a lot more to make a higher power variable scope. If the price is close I would assume that all you would be doing is magnifying the imperfections in the glass on the higher power model. I use nightforce 5-22 and I have no problems using it out to 1200 yards on my .308. I also have a 32 power model which is better for extreme range but I would guess that the glass is more clear than the bushnell glass. I know nothing about the scopes your looking at but I would lean towards the lower power one.

For the record I had a high power bushnell 6500 years ago and the reticle moved with magnification changes ( the Center crosshairs). If you have the chance before you buy you can check this by mounting the scope and using a bore sighter in the muzzle while changing the magnification. I'm not knocking you or your choice at all just sharing my only bushnell experience.
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  •   #9  
    Unread 05-26-2013, 01:42 PM
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    Re: Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .284 View Post
    Are they the same price? It costs a lot more to make a higher power variable scope. If the price is close I would assume that all you would be doing is magnifying the imperfections in the glass on the higher power model. I use nightforce 5-22 and I have no problems using it out to 1200 yards on my .308. I also have a 32 power model which is better for extreme range but I would guess that the glass is more clear than the bushnell glass. I know nothing about the scopes your looking at but I would lean towards the lower power one.

    For the record I had a high power bushnell 6500 years ago and the reticle moved with magnification changes ( the Center crosshairs). If you have the chance before you buy you can check this by mounting the scope and using a bore sighter in the muzzle while changing the magnification. I'm not knocking you or your choice at all just sharing my only bushnell experience.
    I understand your concerns and thanks for voicing them, NF is not an option as they only offer 2 scopes in the FFP, one I cant afford and the other is only a 3-15.

    Bushnell is not the same company you experienced, their elite tactical line is quite impressive. This optic in particular has just been upgraded to a gen II version to compete for the Army contract. I have noticed more and more op them appearing in the hands of guys who push gear to the extreme.
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      #10  
    Unread 05-27-2013, 01:36 AM
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    Re: Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

    I've been using the HDMR H59 3.5-21x50 for a few months for long range ballistics testing. It's mounted in Seekins rings on a 50 BMG target rifle. I will post a more detailed review of this scope later. Right now, I'll address the OP's post.

    This scope seems to be holding up well. The locking turrets are handy and resetting the zero is almost fool-proof. The turret clicks have a good tactile feel - partly because the turrets are so wide. However, the clicks are only barely audible. The turrets have 5 mils (17 MOA) of adjustment per turn.

    My biggest complaint is that Bushnell labels this scope a 3.5-21X magnification range. I complain because the field of view tunnels below about 4.2X (the magnification decreases, but the field of view does not increase). The negligible increase in exit pupil below 4.2X is not enough to justify this misleading labeling.

    The short length of the tube and objective in front of the turret is remarkable. I’m not sure what the advantage of this design feature is - the eyepiece end is still quite long. I guess it shaves off a few ounces, so that alone is a good thing.

    IMHO, the optical performance would be acceptable for hunting. Low light performance compares well with other scopes at a similar price point that have a similar exit pupil size at ~20X. The resolution across the field of view is good. Glare performance is an area of disappointment for me. It's OK, but not great. Higher glare is one cause for low contrast during daytime. For a hunting scope good daytime contrast is important to me.

    Based on the design of this particular product in the Elite Tactical line, I would be cautious about the 4.5-30X model, because I fear the glare above 21X would be excessive for a hunting scope. While, I have no first hand experience with the 4.5-30X model, I would not be surprised to see tunneling at the low end of the zoom range, and degraded contrast at the high end.

    I could stop here, but I'll comment on the H59 reticle. This reticle is nearly invisible in low light - especially at low magnification, and that could be a problem for big game hunting. The H59 has one feature that I must have for ballistic testing, which is the only reason I use it. Otherwise, it's too busy for me and I find it difficult to spot round hits on hard terrain or in vegetation when they occur inside the reticle area. I must rely on a spotter to follow the bullet trace to impact. If I didn't have a spotter, I would be out of luck half the time. I would not use the H59 reticle for hunting because I usually hunt alone.

    The OP mentioned something about Gen II scopes coming out. I didn't see anything at the last SHOT show that would indicate this model (H59 reticle) is being improved in any way. The new Z-Lok zero stop turret appears to be limited to other 3.5-21X models that have different reticles.
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      #11  
    Unread 05-27-2013, 03:33 AM
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    Re: Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

    Depending on how far you intend to shoot and your intended target...

    I tend to agree with Todd Hodnett.... paraphrasing...

    'When it comes to long distance, I want all the power I can get.'

    I like to think 25x would be sufficient, personally my max power is 20 and it works great with the H37 I use. Higher power helps me to read mirage and down range wind.

    I was initially turned off by the 'busy' reticle but once you get past that it's an incredible tool. Just zero at 100 meters and you never have to touch the turrets again unless you want to dial up some elevation at really long ranges.

    Which ever you choose please let us know how it works out.

    PrePS.. for those of you who haven't done so yet, you really should check out Bruce's site and shop. One of the most technically informative site's I've been on and his shop has great gear and prices. Check it out.

    Animo et Fide "Courage and Faith"

    DocB
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      #12  
    Unread 05-27-2013, 09:35 AM
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    Re: Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bruce_ventura View Post
    I've been using the HDMR H59 3.5-21x50 for a few months for long range ballistics testing. It's mounted in Seekins rings on a 50 BMG target rifle. I will post a more detailed review of this scope later. Right now, I'll address the OP's post.

    This scope seems to be holding up well. The locking turrets are handy and resetting the zero is almost fool-proof. The turret clicks have a good tactile feel - partly because the turrets are so wide. However, the clicks are only barely audible. The turrets have 5 mils (17 MOA) of adjustment per turn.

    My biggest complaint is that Bushnell labels this scope a 3.5-21X magnification range. I complain because the field of view tunnels below about 4.2X (the magnification decreases, but the field of view does not increase). The negligible increase in exit pupil below 4.2X is not enough to justify this misleading labeling.

    The short length of the tube and objective in front of the turret is remarkable. Iím not sure what the advantage of this design feature is - the eyepiece end is still quite long. I guess it shaves off a few ounces, so that alone is a good thing.

    IMHO, the optical performance would be acceptable for hunting. Low light performance compares well with other scopes at a similar price point that have a similar exit pupil size at ~20X. The resolution across the field of view is good. Glare performance is an area of disappointment for me. It's OK, but not great. Higher glare is one cause for low contrast during daytime. For a hunting scope good daytime contrast is important to me.

    Based on the design of this particular product in the Elite Tactical line, I would be cautious about the 4.5-30X model, because I fear the glare above 21X would be excessive for a hunting scope. While, I have no first hand experience with the 4.5-30X model, I would not be surprised to see tunneling at the low end of the zoom range, and degraded contrast at the high end.

    I could stop here, but I'll comment on the H59 reticle. This reticle is nearly invisible in low light - especially at low magnification, and that could be a problem for big game hunting. The H59 has one feature that I must have for ballistic testing, which is the only reason I use it. Otherwise, it's too busy for me and I find it difficult to spot round hits on hard terrain or in vegetation when they occur inside the reticle area. I must rely on a spotter to follow the bullet trace to impact. If I didn't have a spotter, I would be out of luck half the time. I would not use the H59 reticle for hunting because I usually hunt alone.

    The OP mentioned something about Gen II scopes coming out. I didn't see anything at the last SHOT show that would indicate this model (H59 reticle) is being improved in any way. The new Z-Lok zero stop turret appears to be limited to other 3.5-21X models that have different reticles.
    Thank you the Gen 2 stuff I was referring to was the optic its self not the H59. The ERS model has 10 mils per revolution, zero stop etc. This is not my first Hours so I know what I'm getting into, I have a HAWK on my 300wsm which is my primary hunting rifle, and a talon on my ar. I cant thank you enough for this info its great.
    __________________
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
    If you want to shoot Bergers start here!
    http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...accuracy-1.php
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      #13  
    Unread 05-27-2013, 09:36 AM
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    Re: Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

    I will let everyone know how it works out for me, I'm pretty excited to get it ordered.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocB View Post
    Depending on how far you intend to shoot and your intended target...

    I tend to agree with Todd Hodnett.... paraphrasing...

    'When it comes to long distance, I want all the power I can get.'

    I like to think 25x would be sufficient, personally my max power is 20 and it works great with the H37 I use. Higher power helps me to read mirage and down range wind.

    I was initially turned off by the 'busy' reticle but once you get past that it's an incredible tool. Just zero at 100 meters and you never have to touch the turrets again unless you want to dial up some elevation at really long ranges.

    Which ever you choose please let us know how it works out.

    PrePS.. for those of you who haven't done so yet, you really should check out Bruce's site and shop. One of the most technically informative site's I've been on and his shop has great gear and prices. Check it out.

    Animo et Fide "Courage and Faith"

    DocB
    __________________
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
    If you want to shoot Bergers start here!
    http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...accuracy-1.php
    Reply With Quote
      #14  
    Unread 05-27-2013, 09:59 AM
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    Re: Help me weigh the pros and cons of this two optics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocB View Post
    ... for those of you who haven't done so yet, you really should check out Bruce's site and shop. One of the most technically informative site's I've been on and his shop has great gear and prices. Check it out.
    DocB
    Amen to that!
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