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Good Scope Mounting Tools

 
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2013, 09:35 AM
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Re: Good Scope Mounting Tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunner2005 View Post
Make sure to get a Wheeler FAT Wrench. Also, get T10 and T15 Xcelite drivers. They will come in very handy.
Good suggestion. I've found that there is enough space inside the FAT wrench box to put a small hex driver, and still get the lid to close. Then it's just a matter of adding a few extra bits that you use frequently (T10, T15, 5/32 Allen, 3 mm Allen, etc.). Then you have a screw driver and a torque wrench, each with the correct bit.

Although the Wheeler FAT Wrench comes with nine bits, they don't include either the T10 or the 3 mm Allen bits, which are commonly found on Burris, Millet and other rings. The 3 mm Allen bit is not even sold by Wheeler, which is mystery to me.

That's why HighPowerOptics includes the T10 and 3 mm Allen bits with the Wheeler FAT Wrench (total of eleven bits).
HPO/Wheeler FAT Torque Wrench 553-556 w/ 3mm and T10 Torx bits
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  #16  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:02 AM
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Re: Good Scope Mounting Tools

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Originally Posted by gunner69 View Post
...One could be level with the rifle in the field only to have then introduced the opposite scope cant to the equation. Seems strange to invest $1-$3000 on a scope and another $3-$5000 on a custom rifle and precision rings/bases etc. only to have a undetectable 2-10 MOA rifle scope missalignment causing you grief...
Gunner, I suppose this would happen if you located the anti-cant indicator on the rail, instead of the scope tube as Woods' photo shows. Attaching the anti-cant indicator to the scope tube is the preferred method for the following reasons.

First, I've calculated the alignment errors and the resulting scope cant sensitivity many times, and I've confirmed those calculations in live fire experiments. Here is what I've found. If the scope cant is removed but the scope vertical turret axis is not aligned to pass through the bore, the scope optical axis and the bore axis will not be parallel in the horizontal plane. The two axes will cross at the zero range. There will be a small but measurable horizontal offset in the point of aim that increases with distance from the zero range.

Horizontal offsets in the scope tube relative to the rifle bore can occur due for a variety of reasons. The most common source is left-right asymmetry in the ring attachment to the base, but base installation, height of the rings and barrel alignment to the receiver can also be factors.

Using the EXD and HighPowerOptics Reticle Alignment Tools essentially eliminates this source of aiming error, but can result in the scope tube being canted when the rail is level (not canted). In this case, attaching the anti-cant indicator to the rail will cause a scope cant.

Second, if the anti-cant indicator is attached to the scope tube the indicator can easily be rotated the required number of degrees (for that bullet and MV) to compensate for spin drift. Doing the same thing with the anti-cant indicator attached to the rail is more difficult because it requires the scope to be precisely rotated in the rings.

None of these alignment criteria are sensitive 2-10 MOA of alignment error. Holding scope cant error to within 30 MOA (0.5 degree) is usually adequate for long-range shooting. I say "usually", because it really depends on the caliber (the point of aim error due to scope cant is proportional to time of flight). I assume we're talking about flat-shooting calibers with adequate bullet energy at long range.

Also, the spirit levels found in scope alignment tools and anti-cant indicators have a sensitivity of 30 MOA per mm of bubble travel. In my experience, an error of 10 MOA cannot be measured reliably without a machinists level, and no one I know uses a machinists level in the field to remove scope cant.
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:33 AM
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Re: Good Scope Mounting Tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce_ventura View Post
I developed a similar tool that is sold by HighPowerOptics. The Reticle Alignment Tool performs the same function as the EXD tool, and it includes a very accurate spirit level for leveling the scope turret axis. Plus it sells for a lot less ($26).
Reticle Alignment Tool

so are you able to see those lines when looking through the scope and index the reticle with the lines?? if so that would be an advantage over the EXD tool, further how does this too stay against the bell of the scope??

I think what some people aren't understanding about the EXD tool is you can see through it through the slot. so you are leveling the rifle then aiming the scope at something level and leveling the crosshairs. you do all this with the EXD tool on the rifle. I personally us my neighbors back window on their house to level off of, out my back door. all is done with the EXD device on the rifle the whole time. I do that and lately I have been moving over to pic rails on all my guns, so I just level the bottom of the scope to the pic rail with an allen wrench
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:49 AM
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Re: Good Scope Mounting Tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce_ventura View Post
Using the EXD and HighPowerOptics Reticle Alignment Tools essentially eliminates this source of aiming error, but can result in the scope tube being canted when the rail is level (not canted). In this case, attaching the anti-cant indicator to the rail will cause a scope cant.
I mount my anti-cant indicator to the rail, but I place marks on the bubble level tube to ensure the bore, scope tube, and scope reticle are all plumb with the world, during the scope mounting and setup procedure. It no longer matters if my scope rail is slightly canted, as my anti-cant bubble level has marks on it to position the rifle, bore, and reticle vertical with gravity.

BTW, the marks I've placed on my anti-cant level bubble tubes don't match the marks provided by the manufacturer. So my scope rails are slightly out of alignment with the vertical bore/scope tube alignment, on three separate rifle setups.
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:59 PM
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Re: Good Scope Mounting Tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by cummins cowboy View Post
so are you able to see those lines when looking through the scope and index the reticle with the lines?? if so that would be an advantage over the EXD tool, further how does this too stay against the bell of the scope??

I think what some people aren't understanding about the EXD tool is you can see through it through the slot. so you are leveling the rifle then aiming the scope at something level and leveling the crosshairs. you do all this with the EXD tool on the rifle. I personally us my neighbors back window on their house to level off of, out my back door. all is done with the EXD device on the rifle the whole time. I do that and lately I have been moving over to pic rails on all my guns, so I just level the bottom of the scope to the pic rail with an allen wrench
Lining everything up the way you describe is too complicated for me. I install scopes 5-10 times each month - at the range, at the HighPowerOptics store, in my garage, on the dining room table, etc. I've found that hanging a plumb line that I can focus on through the scope takes too long to set up. Plus, I'm not as interested in leveling the reticle as getting the turret axis plumb to the earth. I've found that reticle misalignment relative to the turret axes can be 1-2 degrees. It's not common, but it happens enough that I always align the turret axis instead, which is what really matters when dialing elevation for long range.

The Reticle Alignment Tool is much simpler in design than the EXD tool, and it includes long, flat edges and an accurate spirit level so that it can be used like a good carpenter's level to level the scope and align an anti-cant indicator (the EXD tool is too narrow and top heavy to use as a carpenter's level). Plus, the Reticle Alignment Tool costs less.

The lines on the Reticle Alignment Tool are for centering the scope objective on the tool. The lines are viewed from the outside of the scope, not through the scope. The tool has a strip of double-stick tape that allows it to stick to the scope objective once it is centered. Then the rifle and tool are rotated together until the spirit level on the tool is level. I perform this step with the rifle in a vise so that the rifle and tool don't rotate after I get them level.

Finally, the scope is rotated in the rings until the turret axis is level. I simply remove the Reticle Alignment Tool from the front of the scope and place it inverted on the elevation turret. Sometimes I hold the tool along a flat side of the turret housing. Other times I hold a flat steel ruler along the bottom of the scope tube housing and lay the inverted Reticle Alignment Tool on the ruler. I'm simply trying to locate a mechanical reference surface on the scope that is parallel/perpendicular to the turret axes.

The Reticle Alignment Tool is a machined part, not stamped or injection molded. The edges are square and the spirit level is manually aligned on a surface plate when the tool is assembled. The spirit level is within +/-15 MOA of being parallel or perpendicular to each of the four edges of the tool.
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  #20  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:38 PM
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Re: Good Scope Mounting Tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by woods View Post
Perfectly said and all the boxes checked

1. Scope centerline and bore centerline aligned vertically
2. Reticle adjusted to distant horizontal or vertical object
3. Anti-cant device installed to duplicate at bench or in field

gunner, first you say "don't bother with that tool" and now you say "your's is a nice tool worth the money". Have you finally begun to understand how the tool is used?

And you have YET to explain or describe YOUR method, only redefine the problem several times (which we all have known from the beginning)

So please explain to us "a more precise method is required". And we all also know about the field method of cranking elevation and looking for vertical POI's, but we are talking about a method for MOUNTING a scope
Woods - Fair points and questions. First, I must apologize to the thread. Please pardon my etiquette - I reread my first post on the matter regarding the tool in question and I was a bit harsh in how I put it. All of these tools certainly are helpful but for the kind of precision that many on this board strive for - 1000 yards and longer, more precision is necessary. 30 MOA cant work at those ranges . Quickly for perspective, for years I was one of the guys I describe trying to solve my ultra long range issues with load development till I saw something at a range in Texas that some benchrest guys were using (I hunt and shoot tactical/FClass). It made complete sense and it was a complete game changer for how my rifles performed once I got one. I decided instead of explaining, I would show you a quick video I did this afternoon using a rifle that I haven't held it 5 years. Also just a warning, my video skills are subpar at best as is my ability to plainly explain my points but hopefully this short video will be helpful. Again I am only trying to add value and be helpful as many on this board have done for me as I improve my shooting skills and equipment. Enjoy - hopefully.

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  #21  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:45 PM
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Re: Good Scope Mounting Tools

Bruce, I wish I had bought mine from you now, I paid $50 at my local store and just the other day I had to break out the Snap-On Torx drivers because even my Wheeler 86-piece screwdriver set didn't include a T-10 torx bit for torquing my EGW rails and my DNZ 1-piece mount, so I had to purchase a T-10 longshank T-10 & T-15 for my FAT wrench.
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