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Focal plain which is best ?

 
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:30 PM
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Re: Focal plain which is best ?

As for not being polite. You opened the thread by choice, read it by choice, comented by choice.
Acted like a jerk by choice. I dont believe anyone forced you to be a part of this discussion, or any others on the same topic.

Simply find a heading that can help you, or you can help others. Ignore the rest. Simple concept aint it.
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  #16  
Old 01-16-2012, 06:48 PM
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Re: Focal plain which is best ?

Some good reading on the subject from previous LRH threads!

site: longrangehunting.com FFP vs SFP - Google Search

I am not an ELR guy but feel comfortable in shooting big game sized animals from 600-1000 yards, which is what I consider LR. I shot SFP MOA most of my life but have recently switched to FFP MIL and can't see myself switching back. I have yet to use a modern FFP reticle that has an issue with being too thick or too thin for big game hunting. The reticle IS thinner and thus harder to see at low power mags but low power is only used at close range shots where it is a "point and shoot" scenario. At longer ranges the magnification is up and the reticles are just fine.

Also it is a bit of a misnomer that the reticle becomes too thick as you turn up the power mag. With FFP scopes the reticle stays the same thickness in relation to the target as the magnification is increased so it is really impossible to have it be worse or unacceptable at the higher magnifications. If it is okay at 5x or 10x it will be exactly the same at 20x. I think some guys like to see more of the target as the distance increases but that is really just a mental preference IMO.

Much of your choice will depend on your style of shooting. If you don't use the reticle for anything but aiming at the center cross hair then you may not find as much to like about FFP. But if you use the reticle for holdover, windage, or calling shots, misses etc. then there is a huge upside to never having to worry about change in subtention due to a change in power.

One area that I now consistently use FFP is for calling shots, hits or misses, for my shooting buddies. With today's high quality optics a guy hardly needs a spotting scope to call all the shots in the field and with a nice FFP scope with a simple hash reticle a spotter can call shots and the shooter can immediately make any necessary changes. A very nice feature.

Also my style of hunting entails using mostly the reticle for holds out to 600 yards or so as this is approximately the distance where I don't have to worry about atmospheric conditions changing my POI. It is at these closer distances, 0-600 yards, that I may need to get off a quick shot and a mil hash reticle in FFP is about as fast as anything out there IMO. Beyond 600 yards I typically dial in based off my ballistic program and use the center crosshair as my aim point. But even when dialing and using the center it is still very nice to be able to read how far off of POA I was by using the reticle.

Whatever you do make sure you get matching turrets and reticle. It just makes for a much more user friendly and easier setup.

HTH,

Scot E.
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  #17  
Old 01-16-2012, 07:38 PM
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Re: Focal plain which is best ?

I agree with Broz, and prefer SFP for varmint hunting and target shooting.

I too get aggravated that this critical attribute of scopes is often concealed by scopemakers. I think they do so because it's such a sale-stopper for much of their market either way.
For example, if I see 'First', or 'FFP' in the brochure or specs, I don't need to read any further. I don't care if it's the 'best' FFP scope on Earth -and even if FREE.
It holds zero value to me.
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2012, 12:32 AM
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Re: Focal plain which is best ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
I agree with Broz, and prefer SFP for varmint hunting and target shooting.

I too get aggravated that this critical attribute of scopes is often concealed by scopemakers. I think they do so because it's such a sale-stopper for much of their market either way.
For example, if I see 'First', or 'FFP' in the brochure or specs, I don't need to read any further. I don't care if it's the 'best' FFP scope on Earth -and even if FREE.
It holds zero value to me.
Mike,

Good point about varmints, especially those on the smaller side like prairie dogs and rock chucks. I do still have a couple SFP's on my varmint guns. Having said that, I have shot chucks using the Vortex PST FFP scopes and there are zero issues with the reticle being too thick.

I am curious what the last FFP scope was that you used. Just wondering if you have used any of the new generation etched style reticles that are now out on many mid to upper end scopes. You may be surprised just how usable they are.

Scot E.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2012, 12:40 AM
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Re: Focal plain which is best ?

I am copying some posts from Jon A regarding this topic on another thread. His pictures do a lot to explain what I was saying about the new FFP reticles. These are Vortex's FFP reticles in their PST line.









OK, here's the 4-16:






1000 yds, the circle on the gong is 12" diameter:










I haven't taken as many with the 6-24, but here are a few:









As you can see, the reticle on the 6-24 is thin enough to easily quarter a bullet hole at 100 yds. __________________
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2012, 12:42 AM
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Re: Focal plain which is best ?

Some more pics from Jon A that may be helpful.





On 2.5X it looks much like most SFP scopes with a 4a or similar reticle which are much liked on low power in low light conditions:



If you're using it on 2.5X, it's for close range such as thick woods or something. At close range you don't need to see the lines in the middle, you just center the vitals between the three posts and pull the trigger.

I had the same scope in SFP and found it to be rather poor in low light because the center lines were even thinner so they still disappeared in low light:



But the space between the posts is so big they aren't useful for actually aiming with even at close range.

Anyway, different strokes for different folks I guess. As you can see the illumination Vortex gives them really makes it a non-issue. I believe all the newer IOR 2.5-10's are illuminated as well and are so much better than the one I had.

As for generalizing, I'll stand by saying you just can't because they're all different. Some FFP reticles are thick, some are thin. Some SFP reticles are thick, some are thin. Here's and example of a FFP scope and a SFP scope at really low power--1X:





One of those reticles is hard to see, but it's not the FFP. ;) __________________
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2012, 05:30 PM
MHO MHO is offline
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Re: Focal plain which is best ?

FFP all day gets my vote.....No need to explain or repeat...
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