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First scope with turrets, help needed

 
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  #15  
Old 10-03-2013, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 134
Re: First scope with turrets, help needed

I think we would all agree (by and large) that for This type of shooting, the NF is a very solid choice if you have, or are willing to take the time to save the money. one thing to think about is your future plans. If you continue in long range hunting/shooting, you will at some time probably 'out grow' a scope that is less than $1000. If this is the case, you will have put that money to a scope and the you will be wanting to spend $2000 for another scope... this is how y brain works but not everybody's does.
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  #16  
Old 10-03-2013, 01:16 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 20
Re: First scope with turrets, help needed

I guess many purchases of mine start with one budget in mind and then move up when I start adding features. Note that unlike the OP, I don't have a set budget. I'm the hijacker of the thread.

Like the OP, I'm looking to shoot at similar ranges but I think I'd prefer turning turrets and it seems that jumps me into a higher price range when I want to do that and have a ZS and so on.

So while I don't have a set budget in mind, I want to get a good value for the cash I'm plunking down.

Sure sounds like you get a lot of scope with the NightForce.

Not quite so easy with the SSWA though as the USA has export restrictions on scopes and other gun parts. I could contact the one place I know who does ship scopes here and see if they would bring in one of these. Sure sound like good value.
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2013, 04:39 PM
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Re: First scope with turrets, help needed

Zeiss Conquest HD5 5-25X50 1 Inch tube - Plex Reticle - Locking turrets 5226479920

I was actually thinking about the Zeiss HD5 5X25. This seems like a pretty good value especially with the Kenton turret promotion going on. I looked at one the other day and it seemed nice and clear. Unfortunately I dont know anyone that has one so Im not sure on the repeatability. Mike
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  #18  
Old 10-03-2013, 04:56 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 20
Re: First scope with turrets, help needed

Well it turns out I learned that I don't really need a zero stop. Never realized this but it seems that the scopes with target turrets allow you to set the turret knob to a "0" position through some physical action that involves the reticle not moving when you do it.

Then you only have to remember which index mark you were at.

Seems I was just ignorant of this as all the scopes I have, have capped turrets with no such feature.

Do all scopes with target turrets come with this? What is it called.

Stop laughing now. Guy has to figure this stuff out somewhere!

So I don't personally need to physically feel the return to zero. I think I can manage without it particularly having to remember only one number on the index.
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  #19  
Old 10-03-2013, 07:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Posts: 997
Re: First scope with turrets, help needed

Hmmm I think you just demonstrated how much you have to learn....

Question: Have you spent much time with a ballistics calculator ? Do you know how many minutes your bullet drops at different distances ? A typical scope has 12 minutes per rotation. Once you need more than 12 min, you are into multiple rotations of the turret knob. How is that zero position working for you now ?

I don't know why i don't recall anyone mentioning a Vortex scope in this thread ? I have 2 Vortex scopes and they are the best scopes I have ever owned. Now I have never had a Nightforce or a Zeiss and possibly never will. But, I am not wanting with my Vortex scopes.

You have a few things to think about in a long range scope.

1) How do you want the reticle ? Do you want just an aiming point, or do you want tic marks on the elevation axis or on the windage axis or both ? Without tic marks, any correction you do not dial is "kentucky windage" and success rate tends to be a bit low.

2) How much internal movement do you need ? This factors greatly into the cost of a scope. A scope with 40 min of internal travel will be a lot cheaper and a lot less useful than a scope with 100 min of internal travel. A 40 min scope might only have 10-15 useable adjustment by the time you get it zeroed. You may not be able to mount it on popular 20 minute inclined scope rails because there is a good chance you might not be able to get it zeroed at a reasonable distance.

3) If you want to dial, the mechanism needs to be of high quality, backlash free and repeatable. The cheapest scope that I felt had acceptable turrets was the gen 2 Nikon Monarchs with the low profile turrets. They are capped, but you can take the caps off when you leave your camp or vehicle and at least it works. When Nikon went to the Gen 3 Monarch, they changed to the idiotic M223 style turret caps which you pull up on to release the mechanism, then rotate it to zero. The problem is that there is now NO WAY to lock the turret knob and the process described can happen in the middle of the hunt (or while the rifle is in its case) and ruin a hunt since it takes just a second to loose your zero.

So I can no longer recommend any of the current Monarch scopes from Nikon. These would come in the mid $400 range and were very good value for what they are. In my opinion vastly superior to their buckmaster and other series of scopes.

Anyhow, I have gone to Vortex and in my case both scopes are first focal plane. If your hunting style allows time to take the shot, you will probably prefer a second focal plane scope and they are cheaper if everything else if comparanble. I am primarily shooting coyotes and tend to have only seconds for the shot and in many cases no time to dial a turret or even change the magnification. So FFP works for me, since I know that a 2 min tic mark is always 2min at any magnification, so long as I can see it. With a SFP to use the reticle you either need to be at max magnification (where it is calibrated) or at a full fraction of that magnification. So a 1 min tic at 16x is 2 min at 8x and 4 min at 4x. Your style of hunting will dictate which is the right choice for you.

If you are on a budget, look at the Vortex Viper 4-16 HS LR Vortex Optics Viper HS 4-16x50 30mm Long Range Scope FREE S&H VHS-4313-LR, VHS-4307-LR. Vortex Viper Rifle Scopes, Vortex Rifle Scopes. Currently $600.

It is the highest rated scope in its price class at opticsplanet. The only slight downside is that in order to accomplish 24 min per rotation of the elevation turret you only get adjustment of 1/2MOA in elevation. Windage is 1/4moa per click like normal and the scope has 75MOA of elevation and 50Min of windage movement which is not shabby. This model has an uncapped elevation turret and a capped windage turret and a pretty decent SFP reticle.

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  #20  
Old 10-03-2013, 08:29 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Central Idaho
Posts: 1,086
Re: First scope with turrets, help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by canoetrpr View Post
Well it turns out I learned that I don't really need a zero stop. Never realized this but it seems that the scopes with target turrets allow you to set the turret knob to a "0" position through some physical action that involves the reticle not moving when you do it.

Then you only have to remember which index mark you were at.

Seems I was just ignorant of this as all the scopes I have, have capped turrets with no such feature.

Do all scopes with target turrets come with this? What is it called.

Stop laughing now. Guy has to figure this stuff out somewhere!

So I don't personally need to physically feel the return to zero. I think I can manage without it particularly having to remember only one number on the index.

Sense using a scope with a zero stop I will never purchase another scope that does not have that feature.

Without a zero stop the thing you have to remember is which revolution of the turret your zero is on. Yeah there are index marks but good luck with that. I have got so screwed up in the heat of the moment had to shoot the rifle later to see if I was back on the right revolution. In my world the zero stop is priceless.

As westcliff01 says the Vortex scopes are pretty good for the price point. I have a HSLR 4-16 FFP with the XLR reticle and zero stop and so far it has tracked flawlessly. The reticle is designed to hold off for wind. A little busy but manageable.
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  #21  
Old 10-03-2013, 08:49 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 20
Re: First scope with turrets, help needed

Much appreciate the thoughts folks. Yes I do have a pile to learn. Now you guys have me convinced again that my initial thought with wanting zero stop was on right on.

I have a friend who loves his 4-16x Vortex Viper PST. Seems like a very nice scope with a lot of features to boot. There have been a few threads in various places that have pointed to this model having had some failures. Now I'm sure this happens with any product but I don't think I've found these reports for some of the other scopes I'm looking it.

I do realize that Vortex has an excellent warranty but if this particular model does have a reliability problem then the warranty won't do much in the field.

I do admit that I am rather partial to it as it seems to be a great value for what you pay.

I'm not a Vortex hater by any means (just purchased a set of Vortex Viper 8x42 binoculars in fact); just going with what little research I can find. Nice to hear that for every person that has had a problem, there are many that have not and are quite happy with their Vortex scopes.
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