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1000 yard problem

 
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2012, 09:31 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eastern Washington State
Posts: 41
Re: 1000 yard problem

I have TPS low steel rings. I will measure the base this evening.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2012, 09:42 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 564
Re: 1000 yard problem

If the base is indeed a 20 MOA base... and there's nothing wrong with the scope...

the next likelihood is that you have too much windage dialed in.


What most folks don't realize is that the more you dial the windage to either side, the less "headroom" you have for elevation. Instead of having a full range of motion between 12 and 6 o'clock, you're only able to move the erector between, say, 2 and 4 o'clock before you bump the inside of the scope tube with the erector.

Very common issue, especially with the windage adjustable rear bases, or with screw holes drilled off axis with the receiver/barrel.

For those who do have windage adjustable rear bases, you need to center the windage turret, then rough the windage in with the adjustments on the base.

If you suspect you have your windage dialed too far to one side, just count the clicks to extreme right then extreme left, and see how far off center you are.

Dan
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2012, 10:41 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NW MT
Posts: 2,558
Re: 1000 yard problem

Most rail systems dont have a windage adjustable base.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:08 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: manitoba, canada
Posts: 80
Re: 1000 yard problem

hey there,

i have a savage action that always gives me the same problem no matter what barrel i put on it, what scope i put on it, etc... it always puts me at the top half of my scope adjustment when i have the particular round i am shooting at the time zeroed at 300yrds...

i have always had 20moa nightforce 2 piece bases on this action and when my 308 barrel is on said action and i am using my zeiss 3-9 (66moa total elevation available)
shooting to 1030yrds (needs 36 moa from my zero to make it there) i was always finding myself about 6moa or so short....
i basically went through all the stuff everyone here has been recomending to you and ruled every thing out and came to the conclusion that i had an action that is either slightly warped or the machining of the top of the receiver is not flush and has a taper or step making it high in the front causing about 30 moa of reverse cant....
if there is a step or the receiver is warped making the front mounting point higher then needed, there shoud be a noticeable gap between the base and the receiver at the back mounting point if you just have the front mount screws screwed in... if that is the case you could glass-bed the back of the mount to fill the gap and that should get you back to 20 moa correction in your mount (this will also help reduce any torquing in the scope mount and scope when you tighten down the rear screws)

if there is an actual reverse taper in the action then you are probably gonna want to get a more aggressive scope mount to correct for it... 40 moa should get you there...

since i have 2 piece bases i corrected my problem by just shimming the rear scope mount with pieces of a beer can (i know i'm cheap ) and let my burris z-ring inserts copensate and prevent torquing the scope... i didnt have any z-ring offset inserts at the time but thats another route i could have gone to fix my problem....

anyways.... just saying if you run through all the other good advice everyone else is giving you and you still have the problem then it could just be an out of speck action...

orch
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:31 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 733
Re: 1000 yard problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by green 788 View Post
If the base is indeed a 20 MOA base... and there's nothing wrong with the scope...

the next likelihood is that you have too much windage dialed in.


What most folks don't realize is that the more you dial the windage to either side, the less "headroom" you have for elevation. Instead of having a full range of motion between 12 and 6 o'clock, you're only able to move the erector between, say, 2 and 4 o'clock before you bump the inside of the scope tube with the erector.

Very common issue, especially with the windage adjustable rear bases, or with screw holes drilled off axis with the receiver/barrel.

For those who do have windage adjustable rear bases, you need to center the windage turret, then rough the windage in with the adjustments on the base.

If you suspect you have your windage dialed too far to one side, just count the clicks to extreme right then extreme left, and see how far off center you are.

Dan
That is right Vortex Viper PST and Razor don't limit the windage and elevation to a square track like some scopes do to avoid this . However this scope is a Viper so I am not sure as it is made ina different palce to the other more expensive scopes. If the windage is that far out of center to stop him zeroing at 1000 with 20 MOA on the rail then something would have to be very out of line , in the mount system . He should only need an extra 19 MOA to zero but never say never .
Is it also possible that the two rings are not matched in height . A low ring at the back and a higher one at the front negating the 20 MOA rail ?
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  #13  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:39 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 733
Re: 1000 yard problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by orch View Post
hey there,

i have a savage action that always gives me the same problem no matter what barrel i put on it, what scope i put on it, etc... it always puts me at the top half of my scope adjustment when i have the particular round i am shooting at the time zeroed at 300yrds...

i have always had 20moa nightforce 2 piece bases on this action and when my 308 barrel is on said action and i am using my zeiss 3-9 (66moa total elevation available)
shooting to 1030yrds (needs 36 moa from my zero to make it there) i was always finding myself about 6moa or so short....
i basically went through all the stuff everyone here has been recomending to you and ruled every thing out and came to the conclusion that i had an action that is either slightly warped or the machining of the top of the receiver is not flush and has a taper or step making it high in the front causing about 30 moa of reverse cant....
if there is a step or the receiver is warped making the front mounting point higher then needed, there shoud be a noticeable gap between the base and the receiver at the back mounting point if you just have the front mount screws screwed in... if that is the case you could glass-bed the back of the mount to fill the gap and that should get you back to 20 moa correction in your mount (this will also help reduce any torquing in the scope mount and scope when you tighten down the rear screws)

if there is an actual reverse taper in the action then you are probably gonna want to get a more aggressive scope mount to correct for it... 40 moa should get you there...

since i have 2 piece bases i corrected my problem by just shimming the rear scope mount with pieces of a beer can (i know i'm cheap ) and let my burris z-ring inserts copensate and prevent torquing the scope... i didnt have any z-ring offset inserts at the time but thats another route i could have gone to fix my problem....

anyways.... just saying if you run through all the other good advice everyone else is giving you and you still have the problem then it could just be an out of speck action...

orch
It is quite possible you are right but I have not got to that yet still trying to work out if the rail is right and the rings are right once we know they are straight and the right heights then that is the next step , suspect the action or even the barrel straightness .
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2012, 12:49 AM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ventura CA
Posts: 793
Perry and Orch likely have the same problem. The barrel is probably mounted crooked in the receiver. This is not uncommon in production rifles. I have a Savage 25 that has the barrel off about 12 MOA to the left.

When the barrel is cooked to the side, it's easy to confirm using a straight edge along the side of the receiver. When it's off up or down, the stock has to be removed to measure the misalignment between the barrel and the receiver.

I recommend either swapping bases for a larger bias (30-40 MOA) or using Burris Signature rings with offset inserts.
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