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Xtreme Hardcore Rail

 
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  #15  
Old 04-10-2013, 06:10 AM
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Re: Xtreme Hardcore Rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudRunner2005 View Post
Exactly! Level is level is level, doesn't matter how straight it is on the gun. I still don't see his point a out the adjustable bubble...
Level is level but unless your verticle cross hair is aligned perpendicular through the center of the bore you will have trouble when you start dialing elevation.

Level the scope base and then mount your scope level. Zero your scope at 100 yds. Make a 30" tall target with a line running from top to bottom with an aiming point 2" from the bottom. Set the target up at 100yds with the line plumb. Shoot a group at your aiming point then dial up 24MOA and shoot another group at the same POA. If your group does not print on the verticle line then your scope is not mounted true to the center line of the bore.

Did this exact thing last weekend with a buddy's rifle. He leveled the scope base and mounted the scope level. When he dialed 24 MOA, his group was almost 3/4 MOA left of the verticle line. This was on a custom action with a "high end" 20 MOA base.

Before mounting a scope, I level my action off of the bolt raceway, not the scope base.
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  #16  
Old 04-10-2013, 08:20 AM
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Re: Xtreme Hardcore Rail

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Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
Hard to avoid with a 20 MOA rail. With that much cant you're going to have to have a high rail to keep the front of your scope from digging into the barrel unless you have a pencil barrel and/or a small objective.
Very true.
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  #17  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:42 AM
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Re: Xtreme Hardcore Rail

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
How do you align your baseline then? How exactly do you set for square with the bore?

What level system are you using that is adjustable?
What I do is...

Mount the scope in the rings and snug them up allowing enough play to rotate the scope for adjustment.

Set up a table about 30 ft from a plum line. or as close to the plum line as my scope will focus on the line, and set the rifle up with rear sand bags to keep it stable.

I remove the bolt and sight down the bore to align the bore to the plumb line. I basically split the bore with the plumb line by sight.

Then I rotate the scope until the windage reticle is parallel with the plumb line, then align the windage reticle to the plumb line. This puts my camber and bore in the same sight plain (line of sight) as my scope.

Then I tighten down the ring screws incrementally and double check the bore and reticle alignment to the plum line. This usually takes a few minutes because tightening the screws twists the scope left and right.

Once the ring screws are tight I mount the level. (I use the Sinclair anti-cant level) I recheck the bore and reticle alignment to make sure everything is plumb. Then I tighten the level screws the same way I did the ring screws, ensuring the bubble stays centered in the process with bore and windage reticle aligned to the plumb line.

There are 2 basic errors induced if you don't get things right. 1- if your scope is not aligned with your bore, then your bullet will not travel in the same path as your scope's LOS. 2- If your scope is not level (plumbed to gravity) then when you dial in your elevations your POA will wander from your intended POI.
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  #18  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:51 AM
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Re: Xtreme Hardcore Rail

Here are some pics, setting up the rifle with plumb line hanging from the gutter of the shed. This rifle has the NF top ring level.
Attached Thumbnails - Click to View Larger
Xtreme Hardcore Rail-crocus-270.jpg  
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  #19  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:56 AM
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Re: Xtreme Hardcore Rail

Having trouble loading multiple pics, this rifle has the Sinclair level
Attached Thumbnails - Click to View Larger
Xtreme Hardcore Rail-crocus-269.jpg   Xtreme Hardcore Rail-crocus-268.jpg  

Xtreme Hardcore Rail-crocus-266.jpg  
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  #20  
Old 04-10-2013, 10:27 PM
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Re: Xtreme Hardcore Rail

Sighting through the bore to the line is doing nothing but adding a step that doesn't matter. You have no means by which to ensure it is passing straight between 12:00-06:00 other than "eyeballing it".

If your receiver is milled so poorly you are going to have an issue leveling off of the top of it, I can't see how you can correct such an error by leveling through the bolt raceway.

All you are doing essentially here is eye balling the bore alignment to ensure that both the scope and bore are aligned similarly left to right.

If the top of your receiver is off, then you will not get proper squaring no matter where you choose to set your level, but, if you use a level on the top of the receiver/rail and align your vertical crosshair with it, you will be square and level.

The top of the reciever becomes the cross of an upside down T when you mount the scope. If it is milled with a left to right can't to it, no matter what you do above or below it you will still be slightly off center because the leg of the T is essentially your vertical cross hair which is then leaning left or right.

No matter what, it is then out of center to the bore. You will know this as soon as you mount the rail because the rail will twist as you torque it down.

If you are using your raceway to level from you will also know instantly whether or not the top of your receiver is out of square when you level the rail anyhow.

If it's out of square enough to matter you are already screwed because as I said above unless you shim it to square it your scope will never be centered exactly above the bore no matter what type of mounting system you are using.
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  #21  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:59 PM
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Re: Xtreme Hardcore Rail

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
Sighting through the bore to the line is doing nothing but adding a step that doesn't matter. You have no means by which to ensure it is passing straight between 12:00-06:00 other than "eyeballing it".
Eyeballing the plumb line through the bore is not a perfect method, but IMO it is quite accurate if you are careful about it. Kinda like reading a level... that is also "eyeballing". Being a construction contractor, I have quite a bit of experience with plumb lines, bubble levels and laser levels. If you accurately align your bore and reticle to the plumb line you most definitely are ensuring that your reiticle is aligned (pointed to) the bore.

Quote:
If your receiver is milled so poorly you are going to have an issue leveling off of the top of it, I can't see how you can correct such an error by leveling through the bolt raceway.
Either your receiver is milled perfectly or it isn't. If it's not, then using it as a reference will induce error. Once again, any error in the receiver machining, hole drilling, rail machining and holes and contact irregularities between the rail and receiver and error of setting the bubble tube itself in the rail will induce errors to what you read on that in-rail level.

That rail level is nothing more than a placebo. There's a chance it could be accurate but there's a greater chance it isn't. To "assume" that is accurate is to assume that...

The receiver is machined and drilled precisely and accurately.

The rail is machined and drilled precisely.

The torqued contact between rail and receiver is precise.

The bubble tube is set precisely in the rail.

That's a lot to assume.


Quote:
All you are doing essentially here is eye balling the bore alignment to ensure that both the scope and bore are aligned similarly left to right.
I am using the a straight and plumb line as reference to align the scope to the bore and then mount and accurate level in reference to no kidding gravity.

Quote:
If the top of your receiver is off, then you will not get proper squaring no matter where you choose to set your level, but, if you use a level on the top of the receiver/rail and align your vertical crosshair with it, you will be square and level.

The top of the receiver becomes the cross of an upside down T when you mount the scope. If it is milled with a left to right can't to it, no matter what you do above or below it you will still be slightly off center because the leg of the T is essentially your vertical cross hair which is then leaning left or right.
Wrong. You can properly align your scope to your bore, them mount a level to ensure everything is aligned and tracking according to the pull of gravity. If your receiver is off, then it will be canted to properly align the scope to bore to gravity. Drawings can show this very easily. You can see an extreme example of it in the picture of a rifle that David Tubs set up. I will attach in the next post.

Quote:
No matter what, it is then out of center to the bore. You will know this as soon as you mount the rail because the rail will twist as you torque it down.

If you are using your raceway to level from you will also know instantly whether or not the top of your receiver is out of square when you level the rail anyhow.
Using the raceway to level from is assuming the race way is square to the mounted scope.

Quote:
If it's out of square enough to matter you are already screwed because as I said above unless you shim it to square it your scope will never be centered exactly above the bore no matter what type of mounting system you are using.
See the picture below
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