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WRONG GUNS GUYS...be a hunter pls

 
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  #64  
Old 12-20-2011, 11:00 AM
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LRH has a Poll that says something like 85% do not shoot big game over700 yards.
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  #65  
Old 12-20-2011, 11:06 AM
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Re: WRONG GUNS GUYS...be a hunter pls

It's normally the nuts behind the trigger that is wrong, not the guns!
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  #66  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:53 PM
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Re: WRONG GUNS GUYS...be a hunter pls

SpenserSS,

I made that point because in spite of all the preperation we do for long range hunting, we still end up taking 80% of our big game at ranges under 300 yards unless your setting up specifically to take nothing but a long range shot. Few Hunters do this, many long range hunters have the ability to take game out past 1000 yards but seldom do.

Fair enough question though, your right, if we are talking about 700 yard impacts then there should be no problem with the partitions performance terminally from what I am taking from your reply.

My reply to you is that if my comment is not relavent, how can you consider a 95 gr. partition relavent when talking about +700 yard shooting. As you stated in your own comments, you do not use the 95 gr partition for long rnage shooting, its mainly a shorter range option for big game hunting.

From what you have discribed, you are not impacting the partitions with high velocity.... Remember this is a relative thing. All of the chamberings you state you use are very moderate velocity chamberings at best. I am not saying they are not good chamberings in any way but they are by no means high velocity rounds.

I have done expansion testing with the Partition bullets in the following combos:

140 gr 6.5mm in 6.5mm Allen Magnum @ 3500 fps

140 gr 7mm in 7mm Rem Mag @ 3380 fps

140 gr 7mm in 7mm RUM at 3500 fps

160 gr 7mm in 7mm RUM at 3250 fps

180 gr 30 cal in 300 RUM at 3350 fps

200 gr 30 cal in 300 RUM at 3210 fps

The testing was done into my expansion fixture which holds water filled milkjugs or water soaked phone books. In every one of the above tests, the partitions had higher then 50% partition wall failure at ranges under 200 yards. That was the very best results.

The worst results were obviously the highest velocity tests in 6.5mm AM, 7mm RUM and 300 RUM(180 gr) tests. In those four tests, partition wall faliure happened over 70% of the time. Total number of bullets fired was a minumum of 30 for each caliber and bullet weight and range.

Expansion testing was stopped at 300 yards with the slower chamberings and 400 yards with the fastest as this is where reliable performance started 100% of the time.

In interesting point, I put a 180 gr Partition in my 300 Allen Xpress loaded to 3650 fps and the partition ruptured at a measured 750 yards when impacting water filled milk jugs. Now that is an extreme velocity case but it proves my next point.

The Accubond bullet, when it was released was put through the same testes as above. Not only was there no bullet failure, close range penetration was far superior to the partition running at least 15 to 20% deeper penetration on impacts between 200 and 300 yards.

At longer ranges, the acccubond held tighter groups, expanded at least as well if not more reliably then the partitions. Plus they had much improved long range ballistic performance.

All in all, in my opinion, the parition is obsolete when you compare it head to head with the newer Accubond design. THe only draw back I have seen with the Accubond is that because of its very heavy base and very thick jacket wall, if you get a rifle with a looser bore, accuracy can suffer but I have only seen three rifles in hundreds that did not shoot the Accubond extremely well. I have seen far more not like the Partition.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, in your use, for closer range conventional hunting, the parition would likely work just fine, for long range hunting which I assumed we were talking about since we are on the headliner long range hunting web site, its rather anemic in pretty much any way.
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  #67  
Old 12-20-2011, 07:02 PM
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Re: WRONG GUNS GUYS...be a hunter pls

Len,

I would have loved to see that poll taken 6-7 years ago here on LongRangeHunting and compare the results of the same poll today.

I am pretty sure the results would have been dramatically different. Not because there are less of us hunting at long range, just because there are vastly more conventional hunters here on LRH now days.

Not a bad thing, glad they come here to learn how to do it right but it certainly would effect the results compared to past years when most everyone on LRH was a serious dedicated long range hunter.

Again, nothing against anyone, just a comment from someone thats been around pretty much from the start. Guess that is just the evolution of the site.

I would like to see more focus set on true long range hunting instead of having all shorts of hunting styles debating a single topic because the way you look at a topic is greatly dependant about how you hunt.

Case in point, My debate with SpencerSS, in his mind a 95 gr partition out of a 243 AI is a great chambering for his hunting style. To me its a varmint round. Neither of us are wrong and neither is 100% right, just depends on how you look at things from your background and how you hunt and shoot.

Its hard to have a good debate when such widely varying styles of shooting and hunting are thrown into the mix. More discussions turn into heated debates simply because there are two strongly and widely differing opinions simply based on the way the two debaters hunt and shoot their rifles.

It would be like me going over to 24campfire.com and posting about my 338 Allen Magnum reaching out to 2000 yards and having the ability to easily take big game at that range. I would be tarred and feathered as an extremest!!!

Just my opinion.

ALot of heated debates just start because you have conventional hunters debating long range hunters, there is not alot of middle ground there. Again, both are right, both are wrong but no one will agree who is who!!!
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Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

allenmagnum@gmail.com
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  #68  
Old 12-20-2011, 07:28 PM
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Re: WRONG GUNS GUYS...be a hunter pls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Len,

I would like to see more focus set on true long range hunting instead of having all shorts of hunting styles debating a single topic because the way you look at a topic is greatly dependant about how you hunt.

Its hard to have a good debate when such widely varying styles of shooting and hunting are thrown into the mix. More discussions turn into heated debates simply because there are two strongly and widely differing opinions simply based on the way the two debaters hunt and shoot their rifles.

Just my opinion.

ALot of heated debates just start because you have conventional hunters debating long range hunters, there is not alot of middle ground there. Again, both are right, both are wrong but no one will agree who is who!!!

Kirby, I with you 100%. This is one reason I feel we need a Extended LR forum too. The LR 600~700 yard shots in many cases take a different shooting disiplin and a whole differnt set of criteria than a 1200 to 2000 yrd shot.

Len is considering this for us now as we talked about it last week.

Jeff
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  #69  
Old 12-21-2011, 12:06 AM
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Re: WRONG GUNS GUYS...be a hunter pls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
From what you have discribed, you are not impacting the partitions with high velocity.... Remember this is a relative thing. All of the chamberings you state you use are very moderate velocity chamberings at best. I am not saying they are not good chamberings in any way but they are by no means high velocity rounds.

I say again. 95NP at 3300fps muzzle, from 243AI. Anything under 100yds is over 3000fps, and I've shot at least 5-6 big game animals in that slot. Again I have seen no pentration issues in these cases.

P.S. Cool tests by the way, I'd love to have your setup.
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  #70  
Old 12-21-2011, 12:23 AM
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Re: WRONG GUNS GUYS...be a hunter pls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiftydriver View Post
Case in point, My debate with SpencerSS, in his mind a 95 gr partition out of a 243 AI is a great chambering for his hunting style. To me its a varmint round. Neither of us are wrong and neither is 100% right, just depends on how you look at things from your background and how you hunt and shoot.

I don't have a hunting style. I hunt with a primative bow that I made, modern longbows and recurves, compounds and crossbows; I hunt with handguns, rifles, air rifles.....I shoot animal near and far, big and small....I never stick with one setup or senerio for long. The way I see it, once I've done something, it's time to do something else.

P.S. If you go back to the first post I mentioned the 95NP/243AI, I said "I used to" shoot that load. I'm trying the 95VLD and 105Amax now.

And for anyone who thinks we're mad or 'goin at each other', I'm just having a friendly debate, and I'm sure Mr. Allen would say the same.
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