400, I live and hunt in the heart of the Bitteroot. So far, wolves have had little, if any impact on the elk hunting here. But, I know it is coming as the wolves are here to stay. I see more and more sign of wolves every year. Right now, some hunters blame their lack of success on the wolves. That said, I will be packing a wolf tag if the huggers don't get the season tied up in court this year. A hunting season is the only hope that us hunters have as a way of possibly controlling the wolves. I could live with the current poulation we have here now, but not any more. There has to be a balance acheived. mtmuley
I completely agree with all of you and loved what WyomingShooter had to say. Although I cant compare with some of the situations you have out there, right now I live in MI and have a group of coyotes thats been around for quite a bit. Just 3 or 4 years ago the rabbit hunting around here was great we didn't have a problem kicking up 10 or so in a relatively small area now we're lucky if we find one. Getting some time soon to find these coyotes . Anyway this fall I'm actually moving out to Utah and would love to do my part in helping I'd hate to see all these great animals disappearing.
BTW: first post, been lurking quite a bit after finding the site from Snipershide
Last edited by kcsoccer52; 02-28-2008 at 03:05 PM.
Reason: o ya first post
A while back Fiftydriver had some great post's on this subject, well worth rereading! I'm hoping he will jump in again this time. I used to live in Minnesota where they have quite a few wolves in about the northern 1/3 of the state, but since the Moose herd up there is crashing those wolves will have to move. Mostly north into Canada I'm guessing, but my niece and her husband saw one last fall within 30 miles of Iowa border! We occasionally get a young confused moose wander thru , but that's about it. Now I think all bet's are off ,last summer the Mn DNR caught a bear in Minneapolis!
Wyoming shooter, good point, Grizzlys dont apply hear. In Wisconsin our bears are sleeping. I live in the central part of the state and the wolves have been here for quite some time and populations are growing. One nieghbor claims to have seen a pack of 11. One fellow shot one and the wardens were their in 1/2 hour. Some are chipped, I personally have seen 3 this year, all from the highway. Wolves killing dogs is a common occurence and no longer news worthy.
smoknclays, I've never set foot on the C.B. I am real familiar with it, but my hunting is done further North. I moved back to Montana (born and raised native) in 1999. So far in those 8 years I have killed elk every year but one. That year I had a premium muley tag, not 270, and concentrated on that. There is a butt load of elk here, and I'll kill another bull this year. And maybe a wolf. mtmuley
The wolf is here to stay. The hunting quotas will never be high enough to keep the wolf numbers down at current or lower numbers. The only thing that will drop the number of wolves is the lack of food source.
Wolf re-introduction never had anything to do with the wolf. It has everything to do with stopping hunting. It has everything to do with gun controll. It has everything to do with people have no right to be here, we are not natural, only animals are.
A quota of a few hundred wolves will not make a dent when you figure that every pack will produce twenty pups per year, (as long as they have enough food).
Our only chance of getting wolf numbers down is when they make a dent in our food supply. (beef) As long as the beef imports stay high and it doesn't effect the amount of beef in the grocery then there will not be a significant public outcry to get rid of the re-introduced wolf. We got rid of the wolf the first time because it effected our nation's food supply. We didn't have the imported beef. Everybody that is effected by the wolf now, is a minority. It took a hundred years of hunting these animals using every means available, from poison to hunting from airplanes, to get rid of them.
I feel like I can go on and on. In a nut shell I think our hunting heritage is in grave danger.
One last thing I feel the need to say, is that it's not the wolfs fault. The wolf is only doing what he was made to do. They are the perfect preditor. Blame the anti-American, anti-capitalist whack jobs that call themselves environmentalists.
To hunt... or not to hunt...? What a stupid question.
Thought this was one of the best, fact-based letters I have read on the subject. It appeared in an online blog as a response to comments supporting the wolf re-introduction. Well worth the read.
> Dear sportsmen,
> > I just read the original post regarding the negative impacts wolves
> > are having on our elk, and I read the almost unbelievable replies
> > from people who are supposedly sportsmen. The
> > wolf-worshippers/anti-hunters/eco-freaks have certainly done a fine
> > job of brainwashing. I live in Wyoming and have been heavily
> > involved in the wolf controversy from the beginning. We have seen
> > how many lies have been told regarding the wolves, and unfortunately
> > they are very good at telling the lies to get you to believe it is
> > just returning Yellowstone to "natural conditions".
> > Here are the facts:
> > 1. The US Fish and Wildlife Service introduced a non-native specie
> > to the Yellowstone region. The native wolf was the Rocky Mountain
> > Wolf, which hunted in pairs and weighed 80 pounds maximum.
> > The Canadians
> > hunt in packs, sometimes as large as 27 wolves, and weigh in excess
> > of 150 pounds. NOTHING in the region can stand up to them. So the
> > USFWS, controlled by the wolf-worshippers, broke the Endangered
> > Species Act by introducing a non-native specie.
> > 2. Wolves did not commonly inhabit Yellowstone.
> > Strong evidence shows
> > that wolves rarely entered Yellowstone in the 77 years prior to 1913
> > (National Park Service Documents, "The Wolves of Yellowstone" Weaver
> > 1978). Also, an official government document, Yellowstone Animal
> > Census, 1912, lists various animals and their numbers, but under
> > Gray Wolves the total is listed as NONE (Hornaday, Our Vanishing
> > Wildlife, pg 336).
> > 3. Wolves don't kill only to sustain themselves.
> > They often kill for
> > sport. In 2005 in one night a lone she-wolf killed
> > 29 sheep in
> > Pinedale. The USFWS came the next day, tracked it down by air from
> > its radio collar and found that it was 20 miles away, so they left
> > it alone. Two weeks later it returned to the same herd and killed 13
> > sheep. At the Camp Creek elk feedground a lone wolf killed five calf
> > elk, eating about 5 pounds of meat. Just having fun.
> > In spring of
> > 2006 about 40 sheep belonging to Jim Magagna were killed in a
> > pasture near Farson, Wyoming. Many many times we have found deer and
> > elk carcasses killed by wolves with only a little bit of meat eaten.
> > My friend, Royce Hoopes, resigned as elk feeder in the Gros Ventre
> > because every morning he would have to shoot 3 or 4 elk who were
> > maimed overnight by wolves. The most common maiming would be that
> > the noses and lips of the elk were eaten off, leaving the elk alive.
> > The wolves would run them out into the deep snow and when the elk
> > were so exhausted they couldn't go further, the wolves would eat on
> > them without killing them.
> > 4. The Dunoir Valley, northwest of Dubois, Wyoming was the home of
> > over 100 moose for the past 60 years. Now there are almost no moose
> > in the Dunoir, the Washakie Pack of wolves having eliminated them.
> > One of the very last moose calves was killed in the Dunoir within 20
> > feet of the house of Budd Betts. It had been living right next to
> > the house trying to avoid the wolves.
> > 5. The Betts family dog was killed on their front lawn in broad
> > daylight by two wolves right in front of Budd and his wife and kids.
> > Budd and a hired hand ran the wolves off by shooting over their
> > heads. You are damned right we are scared of the wolves!!!!
> > 6. The Northern Yellowstone Elk Herd numbered over 19,000 when they
> > introduced the wolves. Now they number about 7,000.
> > The only thing
> > that has changed is wolves.
> > 7. The Final Rule For Introduction of the wolf promised that when
> > there were 100 wolves for 3 years, they would delist the wolf and
> > turn management over to the state. That threshold was met in 2002.
> > There are now over 1,700 wolves. The Environmental Impact Statement
> > examined the effect of 100 wolves on the Yellowstone ecosytem, and
> > 300 wolves in the tri-state areas of Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho.
> > The present number of wolves exceeds the study by more than 5 times.
> > 8. If you wonder what the wolf is doing to our huntable wildlife out
> > west just do the math. According the feds, each wolf is responsible
> > for killing 1.9 elk per month or the equivalent.
> > That is 20 elk per
> > year killed per wolf. We have, officially, 1,700 wolves. That is
> > 34,000 elk killed by wolves each year. It doesn't take much of a
> > mathematician to understand that there is a crash of epic
> > proportions happening.
> > I could go on and on about this. In conclusion, it is painfully
> > apparent that the wolf-introducers are not wanting to "balance"
> > nature, but are mainly interested in killing off the surplus game so
> > there will be nothing left for us to hunt. If you have too many deer
> > in your neighborhood, please come get some of our wolves. Then you
> > can watch as your game and your livestock is destroyed, and you will
> > have to drive your children to the bus stop and keep them in the car
> > until the bus comes, because the wolves are sitting there in the
> > snow watching them wait for the bus. That is happening.
> > Yes, we are mad as hell about you eastern ignoramuses cramming the
> > wolf down our throats and destroying our way of life. Please study
> > up on this issue before you defend the indefensible position of reintroduction of wolves.
Last edited by drake4; 03-20-2008 at 12:02 PM.