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To wind meter or not to wind meter?

 
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2013, 07:01 PM
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Re: To wind meter or not to wind meter?

I see it as both a useful tool and a crutch...if a shooter is solely dependant on it.
Since a GPS was mentioned I will use that as an example of what mean. In today's Army soldiers are getting too spoiled (lazy) and rely on GPS' to navigate. I train a lot of soldiers every year. So when we are training in the field I give them a map, compass, coordinate scale (aka protractor), map pens/mechanical pencil, and a DAGR (Defense Advanced GPS Receiver). They will always just input a route into the GPS and take off walking keeping an eye on the screen following the arrow. I let them walk for a good distance and then take it away from them. Very rarely can they point out their location on the map and/or find their objective. With me they learn quickly to use it to confirm; as a tool not a crutch, as it should be. This is the same way I do them with a wind meter/hand held weather station. Keeping a good data book is just as, if not more, important. Use the electronic gizmos to backup what you already confirmed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against them at all. I use them all the time, I just don't totally rely on them. Plus they are good for training on wind speed.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:00 PM
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Re: To wind meter or not to wind meter?

Like Broz said: the wind at the muzzle matters much more than the wind at the target. If you can learn to adjust for and compensate for varying wind along the path of the round then excellent. If someone is just starting out then at least having a correct wind reading at your position will help you be more accurate.
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2013, 08:19 AM
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Re: To wind meter or not to wind meter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broz View Post
Now as for multiple winds, well this is where many hours of shooting in winds in the terrain you hunt pays off in spades. There are indicators for down range winds we can learn to read. Degree of vegetation or tree movement , mirage, dust off animal feet, exhaled game breath on cold days etc. But, None of these are as important as the wind at the gun. It is the first wind that starts the bullet off path. This will magnify the distance error from point of aim with every yard as the path and heading continue to widen. The first drift the bullet encounters does the most. With time and experience you can learn to add or subtract from the wind at the gun from what you see or know about down range winds. But where are you going to be if you start off with a guess or an inaccurate reading at the gun?
Jeff
That's very interesting information Jeff. You obviously have the experience to back up what you are saying, so I trust you completely. It would just seem to me that the further the bullet gets from the muzzle and the slower it is moving, the more the wind would come into effect.

As an example (and more than likely this would never happen), say you have a 1,000 yard shot with a 5 mph wind at 3:00 for the first 500 yards and then a 5 mph wind at 9:00 for the last 500 yards. Wouldn't the bullet be more effected by the 9:00 wind? I'm just curious and hoping to learn something!
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:58 AM
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Re: To wind meter or not to wind meter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cohunter14 View Post
As an example (and more than likely this would never happen), say you have a 1,000 yard shot with a 5 mph wind at 3:00 for the first 500 yards and then a 5 mph wind at 9:00 for the last 500 yards. Wouldn't the bullet be more effected by the 9:00 wind? I'm just curious and hoping to learn something!

That is the easiest thing to assume, but lets look at it this way. These are my own opinions and what works for me most of the time.

First problem would be getting this info that was solid, and not a changing wind. But we will go with what you proposed. Remember, the first wind started the bullet off path, (turned the steeling wheel a bit if you will). By 500 yards the bullet is now .9 moa off track or roughly 4.5" left from the 3:00 wind. The bullet will continue on this path with an final impact left of 2.1 moa or close to 22" at 1000 yards because of it's heading that started at the rifle. Imagine the line of sight to the target and the bullet path being a "V". So the opposite wind that starts at 500 has a less effect because it has a much bigger job to do. It has to correct the bullet path back, and the first wind already has a 500 yard head start at this point. The second wind will do some correcting, and in result lessen some of the effect of the first wind, but in my estimation the bullet would still impact left from the path the bullet took from the first 3:00 wind. So can you see where the second wind would have to be a stronger wind to correct the bullet that was started off path from a 1000 yard angle? That is the key, when the bullet starts off path its error from point of aim increases with yardage. So, the second wind has a bigger job to do, and less time and distance to do it.

Hope this made sense??

PS: I left spin drift clear out of my solution.

Jeff
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  #12  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:02 AM
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Re: To wind meter or not to wind meter?

Most trainers address the affects of wind at the muzzle and down range. They break the range into 2 parts, for example: 1000 yard shot. 1st 500, 2nd 500.

1st- bullet flight time is less than 2nd, initial bullet push is X.
2nd- bullet fight time is more than the 1st, secondary push is Y.

It is the component of both units of time, distance, and push that must be accounted for. If you shoot from a wind hide the wind may be zero until you hit 300 yards. From 300 to 1000 the wind is X. OR you could shoot from a wind prone spot, ie top of bare knob down, into a draw. From 0 to 300 wind is x, from 300 beyond it is zero.

This is where experience and math helps a person understand the greatest affect of the wind. It is also the reason some people choose 250-300 grain bullets from large calibers with high BC's. Much less affect and much less understanding of overall wind affects.

I will give an example of a recent shot at 1200 yards: wind was from the right to the left at 6 mph at shooter. At target the wind was 6 mph left to right. Both winds did come from back to front at about 45 degrees to line of bullet path.

Here is the test question: would you shoot for zero wind since theory tells you they cancel each other? If not, what adjustment would you make for wind?
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  #13  
Old 04-18-2013, 09:32 AM
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Re: To wind meter or not to wind meter?

Well, I will assume the wind changed direction at 600 yards, this makes the math easier.

The wind started R to L and ended L to R. The velocity and angle of the wind were the same, so the winds should balance each other meaning shoot for zero. However, the last 600 yards the bullet is traveling slower, so there would be a little more L to R effect meaning the bullet would impact slightly to the right of center.

This is all based on a 600 yd / 600 yd wind effect. We don't really know where the wind shifts.

I, having limited experience would consider it as laid out above and shoot for zero, make changes and learn from the experience. I would only take a shot that long at paper or steel, so ethical shot is not a consideration.

Please critique my reply.
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  #14  
Old 04-18-2013, 10:06 AM
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Re: To wind meter or not to wind meter?

Well I really like the statement about ethical consideration.

Result- not able to see any vegetation movement in the area of the target, decided to shoot solution to gain experience.

Solution said 2.8 MOA right correction at muzzle. Shot 2 MOA right, subtracted for spin drift .6. and easier to hold 2 MOA line. POI off target. Dust blew left to right. Tough to tell how far to right impact was. Sent 2nd round to confirm with 1 MOA R adjustment. POI on rock and about 2MOA Right.

New solution of 1.5 left, 3rd round sent. 3" left of dead center. 4th round sent 3" right of dead center. 5th round sent, POI in same hole as 4th round. Left my GF shoot 6 and 7. 6 off target, 7 right 6" of rounds 4/5.

While going to the target the wind switched around 400 yards from muzzle and traveled the direction of bullet path. Somewhere around 700 yards the wind starting moving L to R.
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