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Where did I go wrong

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Unread 11-22-2011, 05:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,244
Re: Where did I go wrong

The problems I see are....you called a 5 foot miss and your spotter called a foot and a half....twice. Air temp, alt, ect... could be a bit of the problem, but 5 feet!!! You are shooting over 700 yards at a moving deer.....either I am extra carfull, a poor shot, or something, becuse I tend to pass on moving shots past 400....that of course is just me. Some guys are better than others at moving targets, but yours was 1/4ing away and moving uphill to boot...you would need to lead both in the X and Y axis...ie in front and above....quite a tough shot in my book. How much of your 'low' was caused by the deer moving "up"?

It seems like no matter how much we practice, Murphys law always seems to creap in there some how. Saturday my son lines up at a deer at 515 .... virtual chip shot..using my 1K comp gun. Bang.....hit below the feet by a bunch. Go back in time to before season....I dial up 10 MOA (one spin on the NSX) to bang my 750 yard gong. ....back even further in time...... I have had some of "my guys" come in shaking thier head before....diled up to bang a rock at XXXX yards....you know, showing off for thier friends....and forgot to dial back down....and missed the "buck of a lifetime". DUMB, DUMB, DUMB.....IS MY RESPONCE!!!! Well, I dialed down.....yep , I did...FRIKIN TWICE!!!!! My son hit 10 MOA low.......DUMB, DUMB, DUMB!!!!


Last edited by 4xforfun; 11-22-2011 at 06:01 PM.
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Unread 11-22-2011, 05:53 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
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Re: Where did I go wrong

Nice buck, and I'm sure you'll track down what it takes to make next time the experience you want.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 10:28 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 410
Re: Where did I go wrong

I might of missed my calculations in the fact that the deer was moving and the flight time . The deer did not seem to be moving that fast or I would of passed on the shot. Actually a slow walk is what it seemed like. But if I didn't get the follow through right between the time the bullet left the barrel and the time it got to the target the deer might of moved enough to make it just seem to hit low and might have been due to the ever increasing distance.

One thing I do know though was both hits on the deer were centered up and down when I finally hit him on the 3rd shot and 4 shot. The 3 shot was a bit to the right but not by much. The 4 shot was spot on but was not moving when I shot. I shoot skeet quite a bit and use to be a lot more so never even gave the moving target a thought. This was also the first time for my spotter and me to work together and totally new to him.

One thing that really amazed me was the fact that my heart rate didn't even go up while shooting. Just nice and calm like shooting at targets. All I heard in my head was I can do this.

Leica has a red dot next to the square target box if it is set on Meters rather than Yards and is easy to tell if it changes. It hadn't.

I have been talking with Ernie from specialty handguns since shortly after getting home trying to figure this out. He and I have know each other for a lot of years and he has no problem telling me I am dumb when I do something dumb. He thinks it was a combination of differences in Altitude, Barometric Pressure, Inclination and temp. I think next year I am going to have to have some sort of weather station (Kestrel) to correct for it all. With 3 different shooters that day all shooting low there must of been a heck of a difference in BP from the storm coming in. And the altitude change and possibly a humidity change and the inclination angle might of added to it.

Last edited by BillR; 11-23-2011 at 10:57 AM.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 10:53 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Prosperity, Pa
Posts: 254
Re: Where did I go wrong

A lot of the variables cancel each other out. The wind was a tail wind blowing down in the first part of the trajectory which could account for a couple of the minutes but I would be more inclined to blame ranging errors although on steeper terrain they are usually less of a problem than flat areas. The colder temp would cause a couple of clicks low as would the 1000 feet lower altitude( 1/2 click) but the inclined angle would cause the shot to be high ( 21 degrees = 6 yards/100 or take off enough clicks for -50 yards). If you ever get back to that spot again, try to range it again.
Phil Conklin.... Shooting Instructor for The Best of the West
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Unread 11-23-2011, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Re: Where did I go wrong

This thread kinda got me thinking about your numbers, so I fired up my Sierra I-6 program and ran the numbers. I started with your home figures...4500 feet, 60 degrees, and the standard I-6 baro and humidity (70% and 29.53). I used the 142 SMK at 3170 and a sight height of 2.25 (educated guess), and a 100 yard zero. I come up with 12.9 up at 768 yards.

I swithced to 17 degrees, baro of 29.00 ("front comming in), and 3500 feet and came up with 13.3 moa up.

Now , I am not sure about the shooting up hill, down hill numbers, cuz I don't know. But what I do know is that you would need LESS dial up. I am not sure if that lessens your dial ups 1/2 MOA or 3 MOA, but it is LESS.

SO, first, the environmental changes should only have changed your impact piont a couple of inches.

Second....if the I-6 is correct.....dialing 14MOA should have put you HIGH at 768 no matter what the environmental properties were.

By my calculations, if I guess at 10% less dial up due to the up/down hill component, and that is all it is, a guess, and the .7 MOA the I-6 says you were off, you should have actually missed HIGH, not low. Now, that is figuring that your scope goes EXACTLY 14 MOA, and everything else, including Jupiter and Mars lines up!!

I just bumped back to your origonal post and noticed that your range is at a 10 degree decline, and the shot was at a 19 degree decline.....so you dialups at your home range should have been LESS than the I-6 says (12.9 MOA) and cettainly less than 14MOA. And the actual shot on the animal should hve been even less.

Question....are you sure about your chrono readings? I need to reduce the MV to 3070 with your home range numbers to make 14 MOA dialup work...and that doesn't take into account the 10 degree down.

Last edited by 4xforfun; 11-23-2011 at 11:33 AM.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 11:43 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 410
Re: Where did I go wrong

I don't know about planet alinement BUT. Here is what I have and I thought I should of shot high also if anything.
.264 142 grain SMK
Velocity 3170 FPS
Bullet path or scope height 1.75
100 yd zero
I used 0 for the degrees on my print out
Ballistic Coefficients .595
For the hunt I rechecked my altitude from the print out and I had redone it at 2500 feet
Humidity 40%
Pressure 29.53
Temp I put in 40 deg. Well it had been nice out and didn't figure on the snow storm coming in.
It give me for 775 yds exactly 14 MOA adjustment.

I had also printed out sheets for 10 degree angle 20 degree angle and 30 degree angle I find that the difference was 2 MOA between 0 and 30.
It is very possible that my chronograph might of been off. That would/could account for the difference except that I had been checking my drops and practicing every weekend for the last 3 months. It had proven to be pretty close. Each time I went out I would find a bit of difference but that was getting smaller and smaller.

Last edited by BillR; 11-23-2011 at 11:48 AM.
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Unread 11-23-2011, 12:08 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Texas panhandle
Posts: 266
Re: Where did I go wrong

great deer, i am envious! I bet you remember this hunt forever!
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